Tell me this isn't what I think it is

[rwc265]

https://streamable.com/jg1b8x

I'm pretty sure I know the answer: phaser knock. Happened after parking when I was getting home and backing up a hill into the spot. Went away on it's own then came back after revving it then letting it die down, then went away again. My BlueDriver picked up the mode 6 data, said the VVT is working normally. Idk. Oil level is perfect. It's never done it before but at this point if this truck needs a timing set, it ain't worth it anymore as short as my time was with it

 

[rwc265]

https://streamable.com/zlnqsa

Another video of the noise

 

[GlennSullivan]

Is that a 5.4 3 Valve? If so it sounds exactly like my buddies 2014 before a follower failed.

 

[rwc265]

Yes, 09 3v. I don't think a follower noise would go away on its own when cooled, but they're on my list anyway just because of the risk. Today it was cold again and the noise didn't happen. So far what I've come up with is to remove the covers, and use the "wedge" strategy to quick and dirty swap the cam phasers, VCT solenoids while in in there, and I'm thinking the Ford Performance lash adjuster and rocker kit that have the updated oiling holes. What I don't know yet is, can I get to all the adjusters without pulling the cam? And the wedge tool, what's the risk of it breaking off between the chains or breaking the guides themselves?

 

[Hamfisted]

How many miles on the motor ? It might have blown the seals on the tensioners and you'll need to do a complete timing job on it to fix that.

 

[rwc265]

Just shy of 135k. No timing noise whatsoever honestly. No rattles or sewing machine noises but if I'm already doing phasers, lash adjusters, rockers, and solenoids I might as well just do the timing. It'll probably start sooner than later anyway, I'll suck it up and just order the entire kit. Also should probably throw in the HV oil pump. I understand the job in theory but the furthest I've been into a motor was on my 01 CV for valve seals... Far simpler by comparison

 

[Bob Lewis]

From what I’m hearing, you should order the Melling timing kit. If it’s not included, order the high volume oil pump, too. The Ford chain has a tendency to stretch.

 

[rwc265]

I've started ordering parts, ordering them in small batches as money comes in and so I'm not scrambling right before it's time.

I heard it was the opposite, the aftermarket chains liked to stretch. I haven't ordered the timing set yet but the plan was to use the OEM on they sell on Amazon that comes as one big kit. Definitely the high volume oil pump though, no reason to not do it. I've been researching the job more and doing it the way FordTechMakuloco shows in his video, it seems really hard to screw up. I forget exactly which ones, but he took out specific rockers to put minimum tension on the camshafts, then spun them to the sweet spot where all the valves are closed-ish and the pistons are pretty much below deck height so nothing can hit, and he pulled the cams. Then he used the OTC tool to set the crank, and once that's set from my understanding the crank sprocket determines where the cam phasers have to align to so it can really only go correctly at that point. Still on my list of yet-to-determine is if I should just throw new Ford cams on while they're out. Idk what mine look like, can't get my borescope down in the oil fill. They're cheap enough tbh, 300-ish for both.

Also I just realized the vids expired, I'll post them again when I'm home

 

[rwc265]

Still getting the parts and tools in slowly, but it warmed up again today and after an hour at highway speed then a solid 20-30 of stop and go local traffic, it wasn't knocking when I got home. Seems I might have a good bit of time on it. Motor is pretty healthy, I barely have to touch the pedal on the highway. Loving the drivetrain on this thing now that I've had it a while

 

[mjp2]

Where are you ordering from? The Motorcraft timing set is available for $270 on Amazon at the moment.

Amazon.com

I have my parts list if I ever have to do the job before I put the truck up for sale, and one upgrade would be to swap in Melling chain tensioners to replace the Ford plastic parts with metal.

Amazon.com

Amazon.com

 

[rwc265]

I gotta suspect that kit is a mislabel, that's suspiciously the price of one cam phaser I think. When the time comes I'm probably gonna order it from Amazon but if not, I'll use the parts list from that kit and just order it from FordPartsGiant.

I think I got time though. It's been warm, I've been pushing it. Current site is almost 100 miles round trip with 99% of it 75-90mph interstate. So far, the cam phaser knock only came back yesterday and it was incredibly mild, it went away after a minute.

 

[JasonH]

... one upgrade would be to swap in Melling chain tensioners to replace the Ford plastic parts with metal.

Wouldn't that cause more noise and accelerate wear on the other parts of the chain?

Seems like inadequate lubrication on startup would be the biggest source of chain wear.

 

[rwc265]

I'm still going with the Ford tensioners. I think the 4v guys discovered it, but I heard something about grinding some teeth off the ratcheting ones so it doesn't over tension the chains. I don't wanna mod the tensioners though, I'm just gonna trust the revised Ford gasket won't fail. Inb4 it fails spectacularly lol

 

[mjp2]

Wouldn't that cause more noise and accelerate wear on the other parts of the chain?

Seems like inadequate lubrication on startup would be the biggest source of chain wear.

The factory parts are plastic that tend to crack, thus losing oil pressure causing timing issues in top of other parts wearing. The metal parts don't suffer the same problem, and since they're not a component that other parts rub on, they cause no additional wear in the system.

 

[JasonH]

The factory parts are plastic that tend to crack, thus losing oil pressure causing timing issues in top of other parts wearing. The metal parts don't suffer the same problem, and since they're not a component that other parts rub on, they cause no additional wear in the system.

Ah, ok. I misread. I was thinking of the chain guides, not the tensioners. I wonder if cryogenic hardening might extend the life of the chain?

 

[rwc265]

Ok gentleman, it's back... Seemed to go away while revving, lessened when the idle died down

Knock Knock

 

[rwc265]

More parts are on their way, sprung for the entire timing set last night plus new OEM cams just in case it is indeed a seized roller(s) and it ate any lobe(s), rather be safe than sorry. All that's left to get AFAIK is the Melling oil pump and valve cover gaskets

 

[Andy Rubalcaba]

personally I wouldn't do the wedge method, I myself did the full timing job going step by step following Ford Tech Makuloco's multi-video series on how to do it. for me I did new camshafts, timing kit ( which was from amazon, oem spec'd full kit 275$ right now on amazon - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08L5FH7PG?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_10 ), I also got the rollerfollowers all brand new ( cams + rollers ordered from local dealer on dealerparts website, the new ones give you the updated larger oiling hole so it's well worth going that route ), meiling oil pump high flow, I opted for the cast iron tensioners but you could use the plastic ones from the amazon kit. cast iron ones like 45$ each side.

do the full job right with fully pulling everything apart, it's long and tedius I took my time with it taking about 2 ish weeks in my dirt driveway in an RV park, it can be done just really prep well for the job. I got label tags to link all the hoses and connectors, didn't take shortcuts, and just followed the steps doing each one to the fullest ( really clean the valve covers and front cover really good ), it's a lot of work but can be done for longevity if it comes down to needing the timing on it. I had loud phase knock during end of one summer, didn't treat it until the following March, and by that time the chain was loose, guide rails were missing chunks which I located in the oil pan. If you don't do the full tear down and just do the wedge method, I wonder if a scope can be used to inspect the guide rails and make sure everything is in-tact in the timing components.

 

[rwc265]

Ok, so I've got everything but the oil pump and VC gaskets. But here's the thing: I'm not sure I really wanna put these parts on this truck... The tailgate, hood, and the upper fenders need to be repainted because of the aluminum corrosion and clearcoat damage. The front bumper is all marked up and held on by steel wire. Rear bumper is all marked up. Entire suspension is rusty, and now the front ball joints, CVs, and that support arm for the rear axle is almost definitely moving, sometimes when I stop now it feels like I'm getting rear ended. Also wanted to do an e-fan conversion on the truck, but seems pointless now. There's also those two holes in the frame up front where the wheels kick road debris, they'd have to be cut square and patched. It's not that I can't fix all the issues, but by the time I spent all my time and money to do it, I feel like I could run down south and find a better Expedition to put these parts on and really have something clean and bulletproofed.

Of course once it's up here I'll still have to paint and surface shield it, but IMO it's not worth it to dump all my money and time into this one when for the price of all that I could go pick up a clean expy from a southern state with a good body and interior, and even if the motor needs work... I have all the parts now so who cares. I'd like y'all guys thoughts on that plan

 

[Adieu]

Try Rotella T6 5w40 Diesel oil if it isn't totally effed.

Seems to mute a lot of the ticking.