22-24 Steering Softened? anybody? Forscan setting?

[lv2drive]

I've been test driving a handful of '23-'24, a mix of SPP's and Timberlines, using both 2H + 4A... and when getting back in my 2019 right afterward, i'm positive that the steering feels significantly softer and less connected on those '23-'24 models. enough of a difference that i'm seriously considering keeping my '19 or reluctantly biting the squircle bullet on a '25...

does anybody know anything about this - and for you Forscan junkies, are there any steering heaviness / power assist % adjustment on the 23-24?

really want to make the jump to a '23-24 as the "last call for elsd" on our expy's ... for now.

thanks

 

[Fastcar]

Try changing the driving mode to sport and see if you notice a difference.

 

[lv2drive]

tried / no noticeable change on the 23-24 -

on my ‘19 - sport + 4A both tighten up the steering noticeably though

 

[Fastcar]

My 2024 SPP is tight in normal and a lot tighter in sport.

 

[DieselMonk]

The new Expy only the Tremor version has eLSD.

 

[lv2drive]

My 2024 SPP is tight in normal and a lot tighter in sport.

interesting - the brand new '24 SPP i drove seemed softer than my '19, at least up to 50mph / windy roads. i'll take it for a spin again & see if sport mode tightens the steering more than just putting it in 4A.

In general, I would love to run the trans in normal mode since i like the shift points, but tighten the steering as much as possible - Perhaps its possible to adjust the setting in FORSCAN ? (i do know there are some setting adjusments on the 150's for the PSCM that allow it to be set for "sport", so maybe the expy has similar settings that someone knows of...)

The new Expy only the Tremor version has eLSD.

Monk - am i wrong in understanding that the Gen5 has the ELD - like the 150, up to 30mph, and to my knowledge isn't the same as the ELSD offered in Gen4 that is always active and massive safety feature for things like black ice / cornering traction loss at speed? @LokiWolf can you help clarify this?

 

[DieselMonk]

I disagree, because you got all the fancy timberline stuff in the tremor like trun assist. So if you would have the axle locked electronically, this feature wouldn’t work. I am sure the tremor has a eLSD just like the timberline / spp 4th gen.
The eLSD is always active, just more aggressive or less aggressive depending on the selection of the drive modus like slippery, sport or normal.

To me the eLSD is Ford’s best kept secret on the Expy. Wouldn’t want one without it.

 

[LokiWolf]

Monk - am i wrong in understanding that the Gen5 has the ELD - like the 150, up to 30mph, and to my knowledge isn't the same as the ELSD offered in Gen4 that is always active and massive safety feature for things like black ice / cornering traction loss at speed? @LokiWolf can you help clarify this?

Excellent question! Other than 2 test drives in a 25, and doing a little FORSCAN on a few, I had not paid attention to the Rears and those options. I assumed the 25+ had the ELSD except in the tremor, where I am hoping they put the ELD. Off Road the ELD is better because it is a pin lock, and does not overheat under extended use. The ELSD is FAR superior in EVERY other situation.

Now I need to go do some homework, so I can confirm the 25 is indeed ELSD equipped.

 

[LokiWolf]

I disagree, because you got all the fancy timberline stuff in the tremor like trun assist. So if you would have the axle locked electronically, this feature wouldn’t work. I am sure the tremor has a eLSD just like the timberline / spp 4th gen.
The eLSD is always active, just more aggressive or less aggressive depending on the selection of the drive modus like slippery, sport or normal.

To me the eLSD is Ford’s best kept secret on the Expy. Wouldn’t want one without it.

I agree except in extended off road low traction situations, I would want the ELD, not the ELSD.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

I agree except in extended off road low traction situations, I would want the ELD, not the ELSD.

What would my 2019 have? it has the locking diff button on the shift mode cluster, as well as the 2 speed transfer case (2H/4A/4L)

 

[DieselMonk]

I agree except in extended off road low traction situations, I would want the ELD, not the ELSD.

So far I had zero problems with the eLSD. I don’t do extended off-road, but everything else. All I can say is my Expy is a traction weapon, drive in any weather / road condition any time. Exactly why I bought it for.

If it wouldn’t have that function, it’s a dealbreaker for me. This is is better than good. Specifically in slippery or weird conditions where you need traction.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

for road condtions, my wife's Mercedes 4Matic Wagon has full time AWD that is, I think, 70-30 or 60-40 rear-front loaded, and is the most incredibly well planted car I've ever driven on all sorts of mostly paved surfaces. There's no selection of fancy modes, its always AWD, although I *think* you can turn off ESC (electronic stability control) but we never have. You can be hauling butt around a narrow twisty mountain lane and hit a pile of wet leaves and there's no drama. nail the brakes really hard cuz some idjit jumps in front of you at half your speed, no drama.

Then we put Michelin CrossClimate2 tires on it, oh yeah! Incredible in heavy rains.... she had to navigate a steep driveway near Lake Tahoe with 4" of fresh snow and ice, and it just drove right up it like it was dry pavement (previously it had Michelin Pilot Sport AS4 which were pretty damn good).



A NURD, indeed!

 

[LokiWolf]

What would my 2019 have? it has the locking diff button on the shift mode cluster, as well as the 2 speed transfer case (2H/4A/4L)

It has the ELSD. The lock button is a simulated lock, not a pin lock like the ELD found in the F150.

 

[LokiWolf]

So far I had zero problems with the eLSD. I don’t do extended off-road, but everything else. All I can say is my Expy is a traction weapon, drive in any weather / road condition any time. Exactly why I bought it for.

If it wouldn’t have that function, it’s a dealbreaker for me. This is is better than good. Specifically in slippery or weird conditions where you need traction.

Agreed the ELSD is a magician at finding traction. It just can overheat under extreme use cases. It is well documented here, and there is even a video from TFL car/truck where they were testing an Expy and it had the issue. I miss it in our current Explorer!

 

[ROBERT BONNER]

I have both a '20 Expedition MAX 4x4 and a '22 F150 4x4. I drive them both often. Sometimes back to back, same routes, same garages, etc. There is a huge difference in the steering effort at all speeds under all conditions between the two, with the '20 Expedition being much higher effort (which I personally prefer). The 2 trucks now have identical rubber, identical inflation, very nearly identical alignment (I've checked/adjusted it myself - they were both delivered toed "out" within specs and I adjusted them to be toed "in" near the specification limit.) Additionally, they share many front suspension parts and basic geometry.

The higher effort with the Expedition is apparent when the vehicle is stopped, as well as when it's moving; this leads me to believe that the ELSD is not the primary reason for the difference in effort (though when in motion anything that resists rear wheel speed differentials such as limited slip or programmed braking could certainly affect steering effort). This leaves only the programmed effort supplied by the electric assist to be the difference.

My '20 Expedition has the rudimentary lane departure system of the day. The '22 F150 is one step below Blue Cruise; so, it virtually steers itself whenever road lines are available, brakes for traffic, etc. I can only speculate that the decision on both steering efforts and ratios chosen in these vehicles is influenced by the lane departure/self-driving features.

 

[DieselMonk]

Agreed the ELSD is a magician at finding traction. It just can overheat under extreme use cases. It is well documented here, and there is even a video from TFL car/truck where they were testing an Expy and it had the issue. I miss it in our current Explorer!

I’ve seen that on TFL. However this was an FX4.
Using 4A? Really? That makes the center diff slip, specifically if you trying to steer left or right. It’s almost you compare an AWD vehicle vs a 4x4.

I mean it’s like you try to pull a large trailer with a box truck backwards on it on a hot summer day going up a hill. lol

 

[LokiWolf]

I’ve seen that on TFL. However this was an FX4.
Using 4A? Really? That makes the center diff slip, specifically if you trying to steer left or right. It’s almost you compare an AWD vehicle vs a 4x4.

I mean it’s like you try to pull a large trailer with a box truck backwards on it on a hot summer day going up a hill. lol

Remember only the Transfer case on the Tremor(F150), and Raptor(F150) pin locks under some conditions. Not sure if the new Tremor trim in the Expedition gets that part number. It is commonly known as the Hi-Lock.

The rest are clutch based. So like the ELSD, under extreme conditions can be an issue. There are videos out there where F150's in 4H and 4L stuck in mud with only the rear spinning, not even one wheel in the front because the torque needed to break the wheel loose stuck in the mud can't be overcome by the clutch pressure.

ELD/Pin lock diff's and transfer cases are better under extreme offroad conditions.

To be clear, I LOVE the ELSD! It is one of the best systems for automatic slip mitigation I have driven, and I have driven a TON! Our 2020 was CRAZY sure footed under even the worst conditions even with the crap OEM rubber.

 

[lv2drive]

To be clear, I LOVE the ELSD! It is one of the best systems for automatic slip mitigation I have driven, and I have driven a TON! Our 2020 was CRAZY sure footed under even the worst conditions even with the crap OEM rubber.

this is exactly why i'm holding off on deciding between a '24 + a '25 ... because for overall driving traction in almost every situation the ELSD is superior when it comes to the safety of my family and passengers. It's probably the best non-braking controlled traction in any american SUV.

if the '25 Tremor does not have ELSD, then a '24 will be the next expy in our driveway.

 

[DieselMonk]

this is exactly why i'm holding off on deciding between a '24 + a '25 ... because for overall driving traction in almost every situation the ELSD is superior when it comes to the safety of my family and passengers. It's probably the best non-braking controlled traction in any american SUV.

if the '25 Tremor does not have ELSD, then a '24 will be the next expy in our driveway.

The only 25 that has the eLSD is the Tremor model.

If you got 4A mode, you also got a differential between front and rear too. When you turn the steering wheel left or right it open up the differential some to allow to go through corners without drive train binding.

I just didn’t like the 25 because of the split tail gate (makes one stay way further back during load / unloading) and that steering wheel with the new infotainment system. Just too many gadgets, rather than a dedicated button.

 

[lv2drive]

The only 25 that has the eLSD is the Tremor model.

If you got 4A mode, you also got a differential between front and rear too. When you turn the steering wheel left or right it open up the differential some to allow to go through corners without drive train binding.

I just didn’t like the 25 because of the split tail gate (makes one stay way further back during load / unloading) and that steering wheel with the new infotainment system. Just too many gadgets, rather than a dedicated button.

Having driven several '25's - including the Tremor, I love they way they drive - but I'm with you %1000 on the logistics issues with the re-design (the split tailgate,,, loading gear would be a backbreaker, plus we have 2 big dogs that need to jump in the back that would now not be able to - plus the squircle wheel that would require relearning the basics of parking lot maneuvering - and the lack of buttons, most of all the external lighting controls!!)

These issues aside, the big glaring question for me mechanically is the ELSD... i made the same assumption about it having the ELSD just like the Gen4's.,,, however my concern is that the official specifications from Ford, + the actual window stickers specifically list "3.73 E-locker" now, but the Gen4 stickers specifically listed ELSD. @LokiWolf any recon here?