Melling oil pumps are a waste of time and money.

07navi · Mar 19, 2020

762mm said:
Exactly. It is also why I find this thread's title completely stupid and baseless :
"Melling oil pumps are a waste of time and money."

It's quite a bold statement for someone who never used one. It's kind of like the folks who claim with absolute certainty that "Man never went to the Moon". Proof please!

Melling also makes cast iron upgrade tensioners to go along with the pump btw... that are specifically designed not to blow seals. I got those too as a part of my planned 5.4L 3v upgrade package, as well as new Melling timing chain guides.

Once installed along with new rocker-followers, it should pretty much bulletproof that engine.

I don't know where you get stupid from but novices always blow money on things they don't need. You have no proof either, Ford said all you need is 15 PSI so those videos prove nothing. You can be an overly cautious novice and I will be sensible but don't call people stupid.
Do you have any old money you don't want? :emotions33:

TobyU · Mar 19, 2020

762mm said:
Exactly. It is also why I find this thread's title completely stupid and baseless :
"Melling oil pumps are a waste of time and money."

It's quite a bold statement for someone who never used one. It's kind of like the folks who claim with absolute certainty that "Man never went to the Moon". Proof please!

Melling also makes cast iron upgrade tensioners to go along with the pump btw... that are specifically designed not to blow seals. I got those too as a part of my planned 5.4L 3v upgrade package, as well as new Melling timing chain guides.

Once installed along with new rocker-followers, it should pretty much bulletproof that engine.

A 3 valve will never be as Bulletproof as a two valve but improvements can certainly be made with improved and or aftermarket parts.
As obvious from my post in this thread I can see both sides of it. It's probably other conditions that cause engines what the factory pump to fail from oiling issues and probably not that many anyways. You know, probably the ones that I've had very poor oil changes so those already Smile By Design all passages and barely adequate flow is further restricted 15 to 20% and that's when a problem occurs. So for someone who has a problem like that putting in a high volume pump when they do the repairs is making out four other shortcomings in that particular engine. There are too many of these out running around that aren't having problems from lubrication of course they have other problems and it seems that if you keep good fresh oil and synthetic and even the cam phasers seem to give fewer problems but that really can't be blamed on the same type of lubrication issue with the pump and not getting oil all the way to the left rear like you were talking about earlier. The front stuff would seem to have plenty of oil in about any situation but like I said two or three little variables and then the problems can start occurring.
To really test any of these theories you would have to have a fairly large number of engines that had cam phaser and or rocker arm follower issues and repair them, some with a factory pump and some with aftermarket. Then you would have to see what the numbers of future repairs were.
We are never going to have that much data on it but we will have people now and over the years who have done repairs who can give us their experience with it.
I can't say I heard of anyone who has had their engine apart and used a new Factory pump or even just kept the old pump and had future problems.
But maybe they haven't put enough miles on these yet. Or, maybe the new Tommy James, gears and cam phasers, and tensioners and guys are so much better than Factory that it's taking care of the issue.
It all boils down to we really don't know. Just like someone who fully believes in using synthetic oil and always gets 300000 miles out of an engine and says that's what caused it. That's not really true.
There's plenty of people that get the same miles out of the vehicle that use conventional oil.
They have no proof were experienced what would have happened if they would have done it a different way.
So it all gets back to people doing what they feel better doing.

762mm · Mar 19, 2020

07navi said:
I don't know where you get stupid from but novices always blow money on things they don't need. You have no proof either, Ford said all you need is 15 PSI so those videos prove nothing. You can be an overly cautious novice and I will be sensible but don't call people stupid.
Do you have any old money you don't want?

Hordes of blown cam phasers and rollers-followers on the passenger side of engine (consistently!) are MY proof. All due to a lack of PROPER LUBRICATION, as per pros who have worked on dozens of these, including a Ford dealership mechanic friend of mine. He wants me to hook him up with a Melling too for his F-150... and he has full access to Ford OEM parts at cost! Coincidence?

What is your proof? That "Ford said that 15 PSI is fine & dandy"? Sorry, but Ford also said tranny fluid is "lifetime" in those ********* things, and it ain't!

Again, provide proof that "Melling oil pumps are a waste of time and money".

As for being a "cautious novice", the Ford Galaxie days are long over. By your own admission in previous threads, you're no expert about these new-age, high-tech vehicles.

.

762mm · Mar 19, 2020

TobyU said:
A 3 valve will never be as Bulletproof as a two valve but improvements can certainly be made with improved and or aftermarket parts.
As obvious from my post in this thread I can see both sides of it. It's probably other conditions that cause engines what the factory pump to fail from oiling issues and probably not that many anyways. You know, probably the ones that I've had very poor oil changes so those already Smile By Design all passages and barely adequate flow is further restricted 15 to 20% and that's when a problem occurs. So for someone who has a problem like that putting in a high volume pump when they do the repairs is making out four other shortcomings in that particular engine. There are too many of these out running around that aren't having problems from lubrication of course they have other problems and it seems that if you keep good fresh oil and synthetic and even the cam phasers seem to give fewer problems but that really can't be blamed on the same type of lubrication issue with the pump and not getting oil all the way to the left rear like you were talking about earlier. The front stuff would seem to have plenty of oil in about any situation but like I said two or three little variables and then the problems can start occurring.
To really test any of these theories you would have to have a fairly large number of engines that had cam phaser and or rocker arm follower issues and repair them, some with a factory pump and some with aftermarket. Then you would have to see what the numbers of future repairs were.
We are never going to have that much data on it but we will have people now and over the years who have done repairs who can give us their experience with it.
I can't say I heard of anyone who has had their engine apart and used a new Factory pump or even just kept the old pump and had future problems.
But maybe they haven't put enough miles on these yet. Or, maybe the new Tommy James, gears and cam phasers, and tensioners and guys are so much better than Factory that it's taking care of the issue.
It all boils down to we really don't know. Just like someone who fully believes in using synthetic oil and always gets 300000 miles out of an engine and says that's what caused it. That's not really true.
There's plenty of people that get the same miles out of the vehicle that use conventional oil.
They have no proof were experienced what would have happened if they would have done it a different way.
So it all gets back to people doing what they feel better doing.

I agree. For what it costs vs. the cost of a new engine down the road (maybe or maybe not), it's a cheap insurance policy. That's the way I see it.

I'd rather put that in and feel better for the next 10 years that my truck's engine will probably never have a catastrophic failure, as opposed to putting my faith in Ford's substandard design. It will also greatly help if I ever go to sell the truck to someone and they do their research. You can bet that the installed "5.4L 3-valve Melling upgrade package" will be mentioned!

Here's another pro's opinion about the 5.4L 3-valve and its' common problems. They can't ALL be lying, can they? (review starts at 2:30 mark) :

JExpedition07 · Mar 19, 2020

CarWizard doesn’t know what he’s talking about in that video, also seems to be a Ford hater from what I’ve seen. I mean seriously “only way to fix these issues is a new long block”, give me a break.

Seriously what good is extra pressure on the system where stock pressure alone blows out the tensioner gaskets and tons of oil sprays out the front of the engine block? lol. Blown out tensioners and clogged oil pickups full of plastic guide debris do the damage. No oil pump is sucking any volume through chunks of plastic.

07navi · Mar 19, 2020

Those were bad because of not changing oil. You will NEVER convince me they need an aftermarket pump and don't call people stupid.

07navi · Mar 19, 2020

762mm said:
I agree. For what it costs vs. the cost of a new engine down the road (maybe or maybe not), it's a cheap insurance policy. That's the way I see it.

I'd rather put that in and feel better for the next 10 years that my truck's engine will probably never have a catastrophic failure, as opposed to putting my faith in Ford's substandard design. It will also greatly help if I ever go to sell the truck to someone and they do their research. You can bet that the installed "5.4L 3-valve Melling upgrade package" will be mentioned!

Here's another pro's opinion about the 5.4L 3-valve and its' common problems. They can't ALL be lying, can they? (review starts at 2:30 mark) :

Those were bad because of not changing oil. You will NEVER convince me they need an aftermarket pump and don't call people stupid.

TobyU · Mar 19, 2020

762mm said:
Hordes of blown cam phasers and rollers-followers on the passenger side of engine (consistently!) are MY proof. All due to a lack of PROPER LUBRICATION, as per pros who have worked on dozens of these, including a Ford dealership mechanic friend of mine. He wants me to hook him up with a Melling too for his F-150... and he has full access to Ford OEM parts at cost! Coincidence?

What is your proof? That "Ford said that 15 PSI is fine & dandy"? Sorry, but Ford also said tranny fluid is "lifetime" in those ********* things, and it ain't!

Again, provide proof that "Melling oil pumps are a waste of time and money".

As for being a "cautious novice", the Ford Galaxie days are long over. By your own admission in previous threads, you're no expert about these new-age, high-tech vehicles.

.

But the reason this is not definitive proof is because you don't have any examples of brand new Ford engines without problems having melling pumps installed and then seeing if they have the same problems the OEM engines do. Or, if it takes longer for the problems to develop, or if fewer engines have the same problems. So you don't have real scientific proof or test data.
I'm with you, that if I had the front cover off I would put a new pump or an aftermarket pump on also.
I am simply saying that we don't have any proof of how much better it makes it or if it makes it any better than a new Factory pump.
But as I've stated many times. I don't need proof or facts to make my decisions. If it's my preference to put an aftermarket pump on then that's what I will do. It seems you will do the same too. Good for you. That's the way we all should be.

Also, we have to admit that the cam phasers and especially the timing chain guides should not need any help on lubrication. Those guides are continually coated and bathed in oil from the chain running through it and the pump has nothing to do with that.

07navi · Mar 19, 2020

TobyU said:
But the reason this is not definitive proof is because you don't have any examples of brand new Ford engines without problems having melling pumps installed and then seeing if they have the same problems the OEM engines do. Or, if it takes longer for the problems to develop, or if fewer engines have the same problems. So you don't have real scientific proof or test data.
I'm with you, that if I had the front cover off I would put a new pump or an aftermarket pump on also.
I am simply saying that we don't have any proof of how much better it makes it or if it makes it any better than a new Factory pump.
But as I've stated many times. I don't need proof or facts to make my decisions. If it's my preference to put an aftermarket pump on then that's what I will do. It seems you will do the same too. Good for you. That's the way we all should be.

Also, we have to admit that the cam phasers and especially the timing chain guides should not need any help on lubrication. Those guides are continually coated and bathed in oil from the chain running through it and the pump has nothing to do with that.

Not me, there are too many people out there selling whatever they can convince you that you need. I need more than that, telemarketers call because they are looking for suckers to buy whatever they can pawn off on you. The older I get the wiser I get and glad of it.

TobyU · Mar 19, 2020

07navi said:
Not me, there are too many people out there selling whatever they can convince you that you need. I need more than that, telemarketers call because they are looking for suckers to buy whatever they can pawn off on you. The older I get the wiser I get and glad of it.

Kind of like my theory on voting as I got older:
If it cost money, vote NO!

I'm not a super fan on engine sand cars of what little dab you have to do to get by because sometimes that will bite you in the ass but adequate or slightly above adequate is plenty good enough. People run around out here buying expensive other brand parts because their performance or high performance and then other people waste tons of money to buy Motorcraft ball joints and control arms when none of that is necessary.
The last ball joint I put on a car was either on my 98 Town Car which was an upper ball joint I think I paid $8.95 for it at O'Reilly Auto Parts. It has a lifetime warranty and that has been on there about four years and it's doing just fine. The other one would be an upper ball joint on a 2000 Expedition and it was just cheaper and easier, since they can't decide to make one that actually presses into the factory arm, to buy the complete upper control arm. $36 later and about 35 minutes and that one has been good for years also.

I had a friend that I met back in 1989. His dad is a GM retiree who is owned too many Cadillacs to remember. Total GM family.
He would only use ACDelco Parts on his cars because I guess he liked the pretty red white and blue boxes! He slept much better at night knowing he had genuine OEM Delco Remy parts at ACDelco on his cars.
We're talking everything to from ignition modules in the GM HEI 2 cap and rotor button and even ACDelco spark plug wires.
While these things were very high-quality they did not have a lifetime warranty like the auto lights I had been buying for a decade at Autoworks and other places had. I was even getting spark plugs replaced under their 2-year free replacement warranty I think some of them had a 3-year free replacement.
So finally he had an ACDelco ignition module fail and Stranded him but luckily close to his neighborhood. We slapped a $14 lifetime warranty one in there and I believe that car still has it in there. That's been over 20 years.
his AC Delco was over 50 bucks.
So I finally got him to start using the lifetime Duralast pads and now we moved on to other brands.

Melling oil pumps are a waste of time and money.

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