2017 Expedition EL Overheating while towing

[plumcolr]

The last thing you did was the t-stat. It may be defective and not opening fully.

 

[chuck s]

I've not experienced overheating with my '17 towing a ~6000 pound travel trailer. HD Tow and 3.31 axles. Mountains in both Virginias, both Carolinas, and Pennsylvania ain't the Rockies though.

I suspect you're overloaded in both towing and cargo capacity of the Expedition.

7000 full, 6300 dry.

Have you weighted this trailer? I can put nearly 1000 pounds of stuff in my former popup camper so only 700 pounds seems light. 30 gallons of fresh water (250 pounds), a pair of 20 pound LP tanks -- which when full weigh 40 pounds each (80 pounds), a couple of deep cycle batteries (150 pounds) adds roughly 500 pounds to the trailer before the first bit of cargo gets in there. I'd expect closer to 9000 pounds for a 33' travel trailer.

Assuming you're really only 7000 pounds for a 33' trailer you have at least 700 pounds on the ball (not counting the weight of your WDH) and the cargo capacity of my Expedition is a small dog over 1400 pounds so there's no more than 700 pounds max for human passengers and stuff.

-- Chuck

 

[GlennSullivan]

If you had no Issues towing the same trailer before the belt break and overheat, the focus needs to be on that event, not on upgrading equipment. Your problem is somehow related to that event, or something that was done during the repairs done to fix it.

Incorrect or defective replacement / new thermostat. I would change thermo again and confirm the correct part number. Some folks on here are talking about updated stats for expys.

Fans not running properly, either speeds or not starting at correct temps.

The water pump is a possibility, not probable, but possible.

 

[klaus2014]

it seriously overheated and just shut down. I had no idea on earth what happened, I thought I might have blown the engine. Had it towed to nearest Ford dealership and back on the road the next day.

When we got home, out of an abundance of caution, I had the cooling system flushed and the thermostat replaced. Now, when I drive (without towing anything) up the slightest incline the temp starts to climb. The oil temp and trans temp are fine. I've had it looked at by 3 different shops and no one has an answer.

Chasing these symptoms can often lead down an expensive rabbit hole with a parts cannon, but there are a few things I always check after an overheating episode to rule out some preliminary issues.

First, I check to make sure the cooling fans are functioning properly when the vehicle is parked and idling - they should come alive to move enough air across the radiator to bring coolant temperatures down before going to sleep again. If they're not you'll want to check their associated fuses, relays, and wired connections. If the fans are working as expected, I'd next check for combustion gasses in the cooling system with a combustion leak detector kit. Overheating can sometimes compromise a headgasket which will lead to coolant consumption and gradual air pockets, and this can be checked with an inexpensive combustion gas detector. If you don't detect any combustion gasses, I'd move next into checking for pesky air pockets from when they had the system open to replace the thermostat. Park on a slight incline and turn on the defroster with the heat on full blast, as well as the rear heat. Bring the engine up to operating temperature and once the cooling fans turn on, bring the engine up to 3-4k RPMS for a few minutes to get the water pump moving and hopefully purge any air bubbles up to the coolant reservoir. If the coolant level drops after this, more than likely there was air that escaped from the system, so you'll want to top off the reservoir to the fill line and repeat this process a few times. If after these steps you're still experiencing overheating issues during normal driving, I'd suspect a defective thermostat and would request them to replace it under warranty (getting a ford OE thermostat would be a plus to rule out cheap parts), and request them to vacuum fill the system to again rule out any pesky air pockets after the new thermostat installation.

If you're STILL experiencing overheating after all of those steps, then you could begin to dig a little deeper. But I would rule out the above conditions before ordering aftermarket radiators, cooling fans, etc.

 

[OGBobbyJohnson]

one other thing, on my 17, the manifolds warped and sheared the rear studs off. that could be the combustion gasses. piss poor design if you look at it. 3 studs for the front two ports and 2 on the elongated rear portion that goes to the turbos.

 

[adamsdaddy]

@skamerick I've looked but I don't see where you've listed the mileage of the Expy? The reason I ask, is the same as another poster, water pumps die on most cars around 100K. It was either on this forum or on Fordtechmakuloco (YouTube) where a picture of the original water pump's plastic fins were shown as sheared off - the fins on the replacement water pump from Autozone or wherever were metal. So your thermostat might be doing its job without any leaks but if the plastic fins aren't pushing the water around to cool the engine - that could be the source of your problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfO5hFN1NHw is a pretty good 'how to' video though I'd probably aim a camera into the engine bay so I could go back a step.

 

[Guipo]

My 2017 EL with the HD towing package is overheating while towing uphill. I slow down (less than 60 mph), and turn off the A/C to keep it from hitting the max heat level. I've flushed the cooling system and changed the thermostat. Does anyone else have an issued with engine temp going up while climbing?

I have the same issue on mine. my trailer is 5200 ULW, so probadly 7500 loaded without water. Live in Northern California, so whenever I go to the sierras, its a non stop overheat fest.

 

[Timo2824]

I have the same issue on mine. my trailer is 5200 ULW, so probadly 7500 loaded without water. Live in Northern California, so whenever I go to the sierras, its a non stop overheat fest.

Year and milage?

 

[Boostedbus]

After reading this post I can’t help but think your belt broke when a water pump fin broke and wedged against other fins causing it to temporarily lock up causing the belt to fail. Once the belt broke, the pump pulley was free to spin in the opposite direction to un-jamb any existing impeller fins that are left, then the broken debris sunk and settled somewhere in the system. If this is the case then your fin depleted pump is the reason you are overheating because of the lack of flow. I would have to put a new water pump on and flush the system regardless just to rule out this theory.

 

[skamerick]

I installed my Ultra-Guage so I can montior the engine temp and turbo PSI. When the engine temp read 230 I drop down to a lower gear, which increases the RPMs, and I can watch the engine temp drop. I have successfully managed the engine temp this way while towing up hill. After doing some extensive research on the turbo engine, I found that they create termendous heat, which I wish Ford had addressed in the owners manual.

 

[ediddily]

IF your mechanically inclined perhaps inspect your radiator(s) to see if they're plugged up with road grime/debris. Check the reservoir tank on fluid level. Remove the belt and see if the pump/fan wiggles. If you hear slight clunking when wiggling, the bearing is most likely failing. Check the fan clutch (if it has one) if there is resistance to the spin it should be fine. If it spins freely, then the fan clutch is probably going out. Perhaps the thermostat was installed upside down? Any leaks found under the car? Easy way to determine if coolant is that it doesn't evaporate.

Also, sometimes its the littlest, cheapest things that make the biggest difference.....like the reservoir cap. It may not be releasing the excess pressure.

When you're towing uphill keep in mind its not a race, it should be slow and steady. You must drive to your cars capabilities. When I tow my 23' TT at 6500lbs with my 07 XLT (5.4 Triton V8), I don't floor it. I make sure the engine runs somewhere around 40-60% capacity as to not blow anything up. Its better to make it up and over the hill and all the others at the other side of each valley.

I was driving around with a pinhole leak in the radiator and un-pressurized system for nearly 10 years. Only until recently the pump starting crying (weeping), so I did a whole cooling rebuild. Now the hot air from the heater will burn you up close its so effective.

Are you having someone else fix your stuff? Its hard to trust some shops these days.

 

[Timo2824]

IF your mechanically inclined perhaps inspect your radiator(s) to see if they're plugged up with road grime/debris. Check the reservoir tank on fluid level. Remove the belt and see if the pump/fan wiggles. If you hear slight clunking when wiggling, the bearing is most likely failing. Check the fan clutch (if it has one) if there is resistance to the spin it should be fine. If it spins freely, then the fan clutch is probably going out. Perhaps the thermostat was installed upside down? Any leaks found under the car? Easy way to determine if coolant is that it doesn't evaporate.

Also, sometimes its the littlest, cheapest things that make the biggest difference.....like the reservoir cap. It may not be releasing the excess pressure.

When you're towing uphill keep in mind its not a race, it should be slow and steady. You must drive to your cars capabilities. When I tow my 23' TT at 6500lbs with my 07 XLT (5.4 Triton V8), I don't floor it. I make sure the engine runs somewhere around 40-60% capacity as to not blow anything up. Its better to make it up and over the hill and all the others at the other side of each valley.

I was driving around with a pinhole leak in the radiator and un-pressurized system for nearly 10 years. Only until recently the pump starting crying (weeping), so I did a whole cooling rebuild. Now the hot air from the heater will burn you up close its so effective.

Are you having someone else fix your stuff? Its hard to trust some shops these days.

You should be able to max throttle it up hills, even at max payload, and the engine should never overheat. I still think it was a water pump, but the op never came on here to say what fixed it.

 

[ediddily]

Yeah you could floor it, but mine's an old gal and I wouldn't want her to blow like having a bad case of diarrhea.

 

[JasonH]

Ford derates the towing capacity at altitude. It's something like 2% every 1,000 feet above sea level. The Ecoboost will tow in higher gears rather than downshifting, which increases load on the engine and works the turbos very hard. I have a warped driver side manifold that I suspect is due to towing in higher gears rather than downshifting. Ford has released an updated stainless steel manifold that should be more durable and less susceptible to deformation. There is also an aftermarket stainless manifold from Full Race that uses individual runners and is port matched to the hotside inlet on the turbos.

 

[Brons2]

If the vehicle never overheated before the belt break event and subsequent overheat, I would be looking at the basics like testing the coolant for exhaust gas, the testers are cheap. If that passes, then pressure testing the cooling system, radiator cap, and so forth.

I see that you are now dropping a gear when it hits 230, why not drop a gear at the start of the hill? Maybe it will never get to 230 if you do that. But anyway.

 

[joezek]

Did you ever figure this out>?? Just got my 2017 recently and finding almost the same issue here. From what I keep seeing through multiple threads elsewhere, the common theme has been that as soon as you change to an aftermarket thermostat (non FORD), the overheating problems begin. Even myself, I installed a Motorad 170 degree and it just does EXACTLY what it did before which is bounce between 198-215. At that point the thermostat is just wide open and I'm completely reliant on the radiator to keep up. The fluid in the radiator is running wide open and never gets a chance to cool all the way down before going back in the engine.

I'm planning on trying the one from Reische, seems like all the Ecoboost mod shops sell them. I think the key is to wait to open until it's time to open right at 170 in this case. Then it needs to flow very well ( and I think only the Ford one flows enough to keep up with the turbos). I think the aftermarket ones restrict the volume passing through them.

I don't know why Ford or someone else can't duplicate the original one with a slightly earlier opening point. Seems pretty simple.

Since the turbos are water cooled there's a LOT more heat to transfer to the radiator. I feel like there needs to be an additional radiator for the turbos, or just a much bigger capacity radiator. The intercooler isn't helping either with the amount of actual heat right in front of the radiator.

TOTALLY FORGOT- I checked the concentration of the antifreeze in the truck and it was previously filled with almost pure antifreeze, no water. That will kill it's ability to cool off. I know that from experience- long story. Anyway I drained a gallon out and topped it with water. It did lower the temp by about 8 degrees.