5.4 clattering at startup

[JExpedition07]

Well put moose, and many people drive with tensioner related startup noise for years and just live with it. Not a bad idea to have an oil pressure test done in any engine experiencing startup noise anyway, can never hurt.

 

[Big Brian]

thats why I am suggesting an oil pressure test.

I am not saying what is causing the noise since I do not know

All I know is there are other possibilities besides the tensioner/chain

that all I am saying

 

[Ltmax]

Most likely one of the two timing chain tensioner seals has failed. In 2005 when they went to variable valve timing 3 valve motors they also changed the design of the timing chain tensioners that got a small gasket between the tensioner and the block where it used to be a metal to metal fit.

Every 05 and up modular V8 on the Expy/Navigator (and 04 and up F150) will eventually have this problem. Drive it long enough like that and the timing chain guides will come apart and clog up the oil pump pickup taking out the bottom end or the oil supply to the top of the engine will be inadequate from it all running out the blown out tensioner seal that the camshafts starve for oil taking out the top of the engine.

I've fixed many of these and it's not a bad job if you know what your doing and there are quite a few posts about it.

If it were mine I'd get it fixed soon.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

[crector080862]

I'm planning on doing the oil pressure test this weekend better safe than sorry

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[crector080862]

The worst part of this entire experiences having to deal with the Ford dealership. I took it to have three things worked on all three would have been covered under the extended warranty I bought
One was the seat it's just annoying anytime you accelerate it kind of rocks had the same thing on my 04 F150 gets a bushing they're like well we're going to have to charge you to take the seat out I'm like I don't care it's under warranty they didn't fix it
The second thing with my air conditioner you can put freon in it and two weeks later you have to refill it now I already talked to my warranty company and they said as long as there wasn't a hole in the condenser in front of the radiator they would cover it I got a call they said they put 10 cans of freon in it but couldn't find a leak I asked if they ran a vacuum test they said no they just filled it up and put dye in it $106 out of my pocket since they didn't do any repair work to it and said that if it leaks out again they'll be able to tell where it's at now who do you think's going to pay for that next visit as well and thirdly and most importantly is this engine I'm relatively sure that it's just the timing chain tensioners I've listened to many of them online and it sounds exactly like mine but the thing is I have never had any dealership tell me that they don't break into an engine they just replace it and I should just drive it until it starts knocking really bad I was dumbfounded I have a trip coming up in July what happens if I'm in the middle of no place and it decides to blow up on me I will not take my car back to that Ford dealership and it has really started to sour me on Fords and I have owned a lot of them it saddens me

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[curtis-bob]

I differ with some here most techs will encourage you to use 5w-30 here. Other countries that used this engine ford standard was 5w-30 and these problems never happened.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnkaHoqfNwiFPohL7Hf9CAv-veTUzxQga

Still suggesting the oil pressure test as well.

 

[1955moose]

Actually if what I read the other day is correct, in Australia they recommended 10-30 for the 5.4 engine, in north america 5w20. The problem your running into is the warranty you bought was not from Ford, it most likely is from a aftermarket company. I ran into this same problem years back at Burlingame Ford, in California, with my 85 Mustang. They made me pay $180.00 for an oil change and a few other stupid checks. On top of that a gas station around corner from the dealer, did actual work. I screamed so loud, they didn't charge me a dime. I walked into salesroom where I purchased said warranty, and demanded a refund on the remainder of Warranty. Your best bet get ahold of service field manager for Ford, along with consumer affairs, file a claim against that dealer. You need to go to another dealer, don't, I repeat don't go back there. By the way the crooks at Burlingame Ford closed their doors in the early 1990's! Good!

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[mbtech2003]

Do the tensioners and guides and chains now. Did mine in my 05. Seals leaking will cause lower oil pressure and doing the timing cover is much easer then doing an engine in my book. (I’ve done both). Replace the phasers while in there. All parts I get from use only oem stuff. http://www.freedomracing.com/ford-parts.html.

 

[Jack Gulledge]

My guess would be probably the VCT Solenoids are the problem. Variable camshaft timing solenoids. One in each valve cover. Unfortunately on 07 and later, the valve covers must be removed to replace unlike the earlier models. Hope this helps in your troubleshooting

 

[Boose]

Get the oil pressure validated. If good, do the timing gear. The bottom ends on these are pretty bullet proof. Don't fear running 10-30 in that motor either. I ran 10-30 in mine after 100,000 miles. When I did the timing components, I included the oil pump and still ran 10-30 afterwords. These motors love constant high oil pressure.

 

[curtis-bob]

I never did 10-30 but makes since. I always run Delvac threw mine to keep the detergents cleaning out my engine Never know how well the previous owners maintained that thing.

 

[rjdelp7]

The dealer says new engine time and its under warranty, what is the issue? This timing chain issue, is not limited to the 5.4l. The 3.5l and other Ford OHV VVT have the same, long chain set up. People criticize GM and its "outdated" V8s. They don't have to worry about slack chains. Proper, religious maintenance, oil and filter, are needed. These motors are better with thin, lower weight 5w20/30 oils.

 

[crector080862]

The problem is they didn't know diagnosing of the problem none I have a leak in my air conditioning system they didn't even do a vacuum test on it they filled it with cans of freon and died and told me to bring it back and charge me $106 and then they want me to pay to have it diagnosed a second time they didn't look at my engine they didn't have it long enough to do any kind of diagnosing on it they didn't run pressure test on it they did literally nothing

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[crector080862]

Follow-up report

Alright I would figure I would go ahead and send a quick update on to my dilemma so June the 5th I took my car back to where I bought it CarMax exactly 3 weeks 1 day later I get my Expedition back turns out it needed new timing chain guide plates The Works up there in the front so CarMax is about an hour and a half away from me I live out in the boonies in Southeast Texas so I drive it up to him expecting that they're going to have my car for a week maybe a week and a half when I get a call from the service adjuster saying that the warranty that I bought through CarMax was going to have to send an independent inspector to look at my car they had taken my car to the Ford dealership to let them do the engine work on it fordcares it down makes list of everything it needs to be replaced I'm told that Ford's going to be charging them around $7,000 I just thought they should just replace the incident at Point has discussed prior because extreme lot of money for the timing chain and some cam phasers in my opinion takes the inspector 3 days to get out there then Ford gets to do the work so 3 weeks and 1 day later I get my Expedition back driver all the way home seems fine I did notice that the engine fan was extremely noisy and I could smell radiator antifreeze I asked the service adjuster about it and he said it was just going to burn off so I drive it literally less than a half a mile the next day air conditioner stops working and the water temp Peg's out to the right side of the dial call him up please send a wrecker an hour and a half one way I have to ride back with them to San Antonio they call me the next day turns out Ford had forgot to tighten the upper radiator hose so I go get my car the next day in the 2015 Ford Expedition they loaned me which I really liked had the twin-turbocharged V6 in it but it was two wheel drive I drive my car home next day I get in it to go to my niece's house for 4th of July drive out of my neighborhood all kinds of things start popping up on my Dash then I get to little ranch my car won't go out of second gear tired of driving to and from San Antonio I did call them and complain but before they came and got my car again I decided I would open up the engine compartment and look around turns out they didn't tighten the battery down so the battery was just going dead I'm just putting this out there because I'm discouraged normally I would do all the work on my own car but I decided oh yeah let's go ahead and get a warranty and bumper to bumper got the premium one it just seems that everybody wants to sell you something but nobody wants to back it up you just been a pain in the butt but I will gladly say that my car starts up without making that clicking sound runs okay gas mileage is down I'm hoping that's because they had the battery out of it so long that it reset the fuel Maps if not I might have to take it back CarMax

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[1955moose]

Your story sounds like when you bring a vehicle to a little shop, not a dealership. Simple things like forgetting to tighten hose clamps, and battery hold downs is just unforgivable. We had novice kids working at Sears and the old Montgomery Wards that didn't do that. It's hard to fathom the tech didn't recheck parts that were pulled. When I wrenched years back, I used to go around motor or whatever and say out loud tight, tight, to parts I had removed, tightened, ones I was Iffy about, I rechecked, it only took another 5 minutes or so. Sorry that dealer is so bad, me I'd report them to consumers affairs! Somebody needs to slam them, and get their act together.

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[crector080862]

The problem is it was the Ford dealership and did the work CarMax send it to go to the Ford dealer

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[1955moose]

Then go after car max. This crap will keep going on unless agency's like consumer affairs, or Ford field reps hear about this. Remember your the boss not them. Threaten to take it to court. Nothing scares auto shops like talk of them losing money! Tell them your lawyers ready to go ahead unless they fix your vehicle, and fix it now!

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[crector080862]

So the Saga continued after my last post and getting my vehicle back from CarMax the air conditioner still did not work I got tired of driving the hundred miles to the nearest CarMax since I live out in the boonies and Texas service manager and me talked she found me a very reputable shop in a very close town to me he had my truck for over a week the diagnosing it was horrible cuz sometimes it would work and sometimes it would they ended up calling Ford to no avail 900 dollars later paid for buy CarMax over the phone credit card payment it seems to be working okay at the end of all this I hope CarMax in the warranty company have put in over $10,000 on my 2007 Ford Expedition it was a pain in my butt but man am I glad I paid for that extended warranty and to carmax's service managers credit she took care of it as well truck runs great but it did before I am a little concerned that I was getting 16 and a half miles to the gallon when I took it to him and after Ford did their part of it with the engine I'm only getting about 13.2 miles to the gallon I am wondering if they change the program in the computer or something

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[rjdelp7]

So the Saga continued after my last post and getting my vehicle back from CarMax the air conditioner still did not work I got tired of driving the hundred miles to the nearest CarMax since I live out in the boonies and Texas service manager and me talked she found me a very reputable shop in a very close town to me he had my truck for over a week the diagnosing it was horrible cuz sometimes it would work and sometimes it would they ended up calling Ford to no avail 900 dollars later paid for buy CarMax over the phone credit card payment it seems to be working okay at the end of all this I hope CarMax in the warranty company have put in over $10,000 on my 2007 Ford Expedition it was a pain in my butt but man am I glad I paid for that extended warranty and to carmax's service managers credit she took care of it as well truck runs great but it did before I am a little concerned that I was getting 16 and a half miles to the gallon when I took it to him and after Ford did their part of it with the engine I'm only getting about 13.2 miles to the gallon I am wondering if they change the program in the computer or something

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Is your . and , key broke?

 

[Boose]

Hope it's all worked out! Regarding your mileage, there may have been some extended time idling the truck while in the shop. That will negatively impact the average MPG. Reset the mileage and drive it like you do, it will relearn your average MPG.