Brake Rotors

[HawkX66]

Mr stik makes a good point....the rotors today are ventilated and yes they get quite warm but most of us feel pulsating in the wheel and we call it "Warped rotors". To me, it's just a sign I need to open things up....not a diagnosis. When I raced bikes taking a bike/rider wt of 494lbs(on a good day) from 170-180 to 40 in a couple of hundred feet, I would swear I saw red but driving my lumbering truck at 70-80 ain't going to do it.....

I will go with OEM rotors & Ceramics. I've used ceramics for years on my SLK b/c they stop very well, don't behave differently in the rain and they don't leave brake dust all over my alum rims. I

jeff

I have an SLK also. SLK 350. It still has the factory pads and they make a mess out my wheels. I already bought new ceramic pads for it, I just need to throw them in. I'm just not looking forward to having to bed them in.

MrSticker's post is correct. Most of the time rotors aren't actually warped. A lot of people don't pump their brakes as they're coming to a stop. This creates a build up of brake material that gets baked on to the rotor. That material will cause pulsing. If you start pumping your brakes versus riding them or holding them until you stop you can sometimes reverse the problem after a while.

 

[TobyU]

I read many years ago that it was the material transfer to the rotors from hot brakes and mainly from people sitting there with the foot on the brake that causes more pulsation that people think is warpage.
That article seems to say it is worse with ceramic pads as semi-metallic pads cut into the rotor more and eat that away. Maybe that is why I don't have many problems anymore. I only use semi-metallic pads and in the one or two occasions were the only options available were ceramic or organic I chose the cheaper organic.
I have had too many ceramic pads I'm cars that people have brought me complaining about the squeaking. The only benefit to ceramic for me is they create less brake dust. I don't see the push for these as semi-metallic work just fine for everything I have ever had or driven. I'm not worried about rotor wear as rotors have been made so thin for 20 years now that I don't consider them to be turnable at all. You just replace the pads until the rotors get Warped or pulsate excessively or until a pad wears out and grinds into the rotor, then you replace the rotor.

 

[Paul Prekeris]

using Power STOP K36736 Z36 Truck & Tow Performance Kit from Rock auto. No warping and stops well

 

[Dan G]

I used to warp my rotors, but since I switched to EBC Greenstuff pads haven't had an issue. And I tow a 6000 lbs. boat up and down to Tahoe from Reno throughout the summer with no issues. The pads also improved my stopping performance.

HTH.

 

[old codger]

Wagner up until 2 years ago used to sell rotors with a life time warranty, and they stand behind it. As long as they replace them for free I'll keep buying them

 

[1955moose]

Back in the 90's when I managed the Kragen store now Oreillys here in Daly City, we had a free replacement warranty on our pads. The caveat was the pads had to be worn out enough, but not too much. If you wore them down to the rivets, or the backing plate we didn't warranty them. Stupid, hah! But we sent back at least 15 pair every night when we closed, along with all the defective starters/alternators, and cores. Never heard of the Wagner rotor deal, but that's a no brainier if they still do it. O'Reilly's stopped the free pad deal years ago.

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[pdqcarrera]

Been discussed before: https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/brake-upgrades.37278/

My reply hasn't changed except for more happy miles since then...

For my 2010 Limited EL 4x4 I went with Power Slot Slotted Brake Rotors with Hawk Performance LTS SUV brake pads.* Was a noticeable improvement and still going good after 30+k miles including towing mileage (race car trailer), family ski trips and SoCal stop-n-go traffic. Will say the brake dust is pretty aggressive. Attacked the chrome on my custom wheels when I wasn't paying enough attention. grrrrrrr. Of course YMMV! ;-)
Front - Axle Set (HB672Y.714)
Rear - Axle Set (HB579Y.785)

 

[TobyU]

Back in the 90's when I managed the Kragen store now Oreillys here in Daly City, we had a free replacement warranty on our pads. The caveat was the pads had to be worn out enough, but not too much. If you wore them down to the rivets, or the backing plate we didn't warranty them. Stupid, hah! But we sent back at least 15 pair every night when we closed, along with all the defective starters/alternators, and cores. Never heard of the Wagner rotor deal, but that's a no brainier if they still do it. O'Reilly's stopped the free pad deal years ago.

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

HEY!! Me too, kinda.
Checkers, Shucks, Kragen, Crown, and Autoworks.
I worked at Autoworks. "Autoworks: Home of the LIFETIME WARRANTY, this it Toby can I hep you?"
Then later "Thank you for calling Autoworks, home of the TRI-Star parts system, this is Toby and I CAN help you!"

Blue painted lifetime starters...
They INVENTED the lifetime warranty and I SO glad they did.

I did not know about the Wagner warrant.
I had some Duralast 2yr ones once I took in to turn and he saw they were within 2 yr and jsut gave me new ones. Didn't want to do the work to turn them even for the 6-7 bucks each as it was then.

I an a SUCKER for lifetime warranty or UNLIMITED.
Even I might spend more and get a real brand if this is the case.

I'm so exited....and I just cant hide it....SING IT WITH ME NOW...."I'm about to lose control and thing I like it...ooh yeah"
Nope, no about to. Already lost it....

 

[the bus]

I had the same issue on gen 2. My wife drives the expedition like a race car and did tow a 2 ton boat. I diy but after resurfacing rotors, new Auto zone top grade rotors and pads still warping. The solution was napa drill and slotted rotors and Wagner semi metallic pads. semi metallic can take the heat better and not force it all into the rotor. And with slots and groves it gets the gasses out too. The rotors are just now getting thin and very slight warp after 130k which is really good. spend the few dollars and get some good brakes on there. You can diy it and it is fairly easy. I did look at Baer brembo and the other fancy brands too but did not go that route. I was that frustrated and willing to spend the $$.

 

[Richard Chapman]

Here is some things to think about on rotors. If you take a new rotor and bolt it up to a known good wheel, then put a dial indicator on it and measure the "run out" (warp) as you spin the rotor, it will probably measure less than .002 inches. If you do the same thing with that same rotor after your petal starts pulsing, it will probably measure .015 to .025 inch range of run out. Hence rotors do warp and that is caused by a lot of things.

The rotors being sold today are made using lower grade steal (not a strong and less resistance to bending) and are much thinner. Both of those changes make them cheaper and easier to warp. I can remember on my cars in the 1960, 70 and 80s, I hardly ever had brake pedal pulsing and when it happened, the rotors could be turned to eliminate it.

Rotors can and will warp for a large number of reasons. Some of them are:
1) improper installation of wheel nuts like fully tightening one fully before seating all of them. I have always snugged up all the nuts, then tighten them in a star pattern and for the past 25 years have used a torque wrench, before that i used a 4 way and did my best to tighten them all the same. Today after visiting a tire shop, i always redo the wheel nuts because then are more interested in doing it quickly not correctly. I just had a new set of tires put on my Expedition and when I asked them how much they tighten the nuts. They said the tighten everything to 180 lbs using a torque wrench. When i asked if they knew the factory spec for my Expedition, they just got a "dear in the headlight" look. Needless to say I redid all the wheel nuts when i got home.
2) improper installation of brake pads. I always take the the brake calipers apart, clean and lube the components to make sure they move and can adjust while the brake pads get smaller. If this isn't done then after a while the caliper doesn't move and put more pressure on one side of the rotor than the other which can cause warping.
3) Braking style. I find that avoiding panic stops and much as possible and not riding the brakes goes a long way to preventing brake pedal pulsing under light pressure (also known as rotor warping).

I have never used or liked life time brakes because they are made from harder material, therefore they last longer. The harder the brake pad material is the more heat created when they are applied to the rotor. I believe brake pads were made to wear out in a reasonable time period (40 to 60K miles). For that reason I always chose the OEM type/style of pad.

I typically get 40 to 60K miles out of a front set of rotors and break pads and 60 to 80K miles on a rear set of rotors and brake pads. I personally find this acceptable and expected for a maintenance item.

Just wanted to share some of my thoughts and ideas on this subject.

 

[rjdelp7]

I bought a used Lincoln, that sat on a gravel driveway. It was parked for weeks and the front rotors had some surface rust. The area behind the pads stayed clean. Driving/braking, cleaned off the rust and a slight pulsing developed. It had nothing to do with heat. They are not 'warped', they are just worn ruff. I was told 'better' rotors have more carbon in the steel and don't rust as easy. No one 'turns' anymore because the thin rotors warp. You have to drive like some kind of *******, to get brakes hot enough to warp. Even towing, your trailer brakes should be doing there part and not heat up the trucks. Certain wheel designs, expose the rotors weather. My 2000's has smaller wheel openings and never had a problem.

 

[Plati]

.....
The rotors being sold today are made using lower grade steal (not a strong and less resistance to bending) and are much thinner.
...

I know brake rotors can be made from various materials but aren't most of the standard ones made of cast iron? The better ones are high carbon cast iron (with various other metals in the alloy) .. And don't rust too bad either. Steel would be unusual.

I think pushed hard brake rotors can get up to 400 degrees F and the melting point of cast iron is over 2100 F.

 

[Richard Chapman]

MrSticker said:
I know brake rotors can be made from various materials but aren't most of the standard ones made of cast iron? The better ones are high carbon cast iron (with various other metals in the alloy) .. And don't rust too bad either. Steel would be unusual.

I think pushed hard brake rotors can get up to 400 degrees F and the melting point of cast iron is over 2100
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There are some made by cast iron or cast steel. The best are made from machining high grade carbon steel, but those are extremely expensive.

In our area several of the Auto parts stores still turn rotors and turn a pretty good number of rotors per year.

Having a pulsating brake pedal does not mean the rotor is warped.
Easiest way to determine if a rotor is warped is to jack the car up, remove the wheel, put a dial indicator on the rotor, rotate the rotor and check the run out.

 

[Plati]

I'm not a metallurgist ... But I'm trying to teach myself as much as I can about that subject. Steel starts to get soft in the 500 F range. I really think the kind of rotors we buy for our Expys are cast iron. I could be wrong. Glad to admit it if I am because I want the right answer and I want to learn.

 

[TobyU]

I don't worry about it. I don't care what they're made out of. It does seem to be closer to cast iron to steel but I don't think it's the same type of cast iron as an exhaust manifold or other cast iron. I'm sure there's percentages and all that kind of stuff with Alloys and such. I just compared rotors to rotors, price to price, and what works.

 

[Plati]

I don't worry about it either. I don't worry about anything anymore except my parents health and well being. I'm too old to worry, figure I'm lucky I made it past 40 ... Didn't think that would happen.

I do however try to understand the quality of the parts I put on my Expy since I drive it on long trips in all kinds of terrain and conditions. I hope to drive the Alaska Highway in the next couple years. I had scrappy rotors last summer in the Rockies all rusted and pulsing going down mountains. Try driving MtWashington, the Beartooth Highway or the Going to the Sun Road sometime and youll put a little extra effort into making sure your braking system is up to *****. You might even spend an extra $75 on the chance that the parts are better.

 

[Scott B]

Brake Stop rotors (cross drilled) and Brake Stop pads for my 2000 and 2015 work great.

 

[Steve Owens]

I went with the new Wagner rotors and Wagner OEx pads. Drive in the mountains, pull a Bass Boat, and they have awesome stopping power, no warping or fade after 22K. Hardly any dust on my wheels.

 

[joethefordguy]

Here's what I've found on taking care of any rotors if you care.
Avoid getting them wet when hot. That can warp them quickly.

After braking especially hard but even at stop lights if they are hot....don't sit with foot on brake in one place on rotor.
Either shift to park and let foot off brake pedal or let it roll 6 inches every few seconds.

TobyU
this didn't happen on a Ford, but it is related. a 1988 Honda Accord, racing down a steep, curvy hillside road; so a lot of braking and turning. had to stop at a gate post at the bottom, on a slight slope, so i sat there for a minute talking to the guard with my foot on the brake. she noticed my fronts were smoking, so I pulled up the parking brake and got out. the rotors were too hot to hold my hand near them. we were in the middle of the woods, so I just stood there waiting to see what else might happen. the smoking stopped, i checked, they had definitely cooled. when i tried to drive off, the front wheels were frozen in place. it took about 15 minutes for the wheels to cool down enough to release. never did that again!

 

[bobmbx]

Here's what I've found on taking care of any rotors if you care.
Avoid getting them wet when hot. That can warp them quickly.

After braking especially hard but even at stop lights if they are hot....don't sit with foot on brake in one place on rotor.
Either shift to park and let foot off brake pedal or let it roll 6 inches every few seconds.

What do you do if it starts raining?