Brake Upgrade Options

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TobyU

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The way to measure is stopping distance. Most aftermarket pads and rotors do not offer any improvement over OEM pads and rotors. There are many tests documented and can be found with a simple google search.
This is why many choose to go to the big brake upgrade, where they will see increased performance as it relates to stopping distance.

That is how some people do it OR they rely on published numbers.
I doubt many people go mark off a line and drive xx mph and stand on the brakes and then go do it with the new parts!

Most people go by "the feel" ....How accurate or scientific is this? Not very but many claim they can feel a difference.

I think they all stop fine factory.
 

TobyU

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It’s clear you’ve never experienced really good pads then.

I think you will find most people who do not tow find factory brakes to be just fine.

I don't race or drive an SUV hard. I drive it the same as I drive my Town Cars.

Never wished for better brakes. The factory will lock the tires then abs will take over.
Why do you need better brakes? Do you want to push the pedal with less effort?
Once again, I don't tow and never had brake fade down a hill so I see no point for me.

People say they feel better or feel like they stop faster. I say if is stopping with less pedal effort.
Others who support upgrades have already said that most aftermarket don't improve stopping distance but bigger rotors and caliper upgrades do.
So that leaves stopping easier with less pedal pushing to make it "feel" like it stops better.
 

ExplorerTom

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I think you will find most people who do not tow find factory brakes to be just fine.

I don’t tow. And my factory brakes were replaced over a decade ago.

Why do you need better brakes?

I have larger tires than stock on larger wheels than stock. All contribute to a higher moment of inertia.

Do you want to push the pedal with less effort?

I want to stop when I hit the brakes. I want to follow someone close and stop shorter than they do. And I want to do this repeatedly without brake fade. I want to hold position on a trail while tilted at a steep angle.

So I know you’re the resident “must have the last word” on here, but I actually have experience with different brake compounds and on several different vehicles: most were street-only vehicles but a couple saw road course driving. A street compound pad could not lock up my race compound tires. And the street compound pads would be worthless after a couple laps. The race compound pad would nearly pull your eyeballs out.

What about ABS? On my Expedition, I’ve only ever activated the ABS in the snow. My better pads, should in theory, activate the ABS in the dry easier. And maybe they would if I pushed the brake pedal harder, but I stop plenty fast without. What I do know is that with “regular” brakes (cuz my factory brakes are long gone) there were times where I was looking for an out (ie jumping up onto the curb, going into the other lane, or making quick peace with rear ending the vehicle in front of me). But with good pads, that doesn’t happen.
 

ExplorerTom

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Others who support upgrades have already said that most aftermarket don't improve stopping distance but bigger rotors and caliper upgrades do.

You can read this for free, or spend $500 to hear him speak at an SAE conference (if he’s still doing those). Widely regarded as The Authority when it comes to brakes.
http://www.scirocco.org/faq/brakes/pulpfriction/pfpage1.html

I know some of what I posted from my experience is contradicted by this article- which I attribute to the larger/heavier tires and older braking components. All I know is that I prefer the feel and confidence that my upgraded brake pads give me. I’ve taken my brakes from feeling like crap and nearly hitting people, to feeling great and stopping with confidence. All by changing pads.
 

TobyU

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I don’t tow. And my factory brakes were replaced over a decade ago.



I have larger tires than stock on larger wheels than stock. All contribute to a higher moment of inertia.



I want to stop when I hit the brakes. I want to follow someone close and stop shorter than they do. And I want to do this repeatedly without brake fade. I want to hold position on a trail while tilted at a steep angle.

So I know you’re the resident “must have the last word” on here, but I actually have experience with different brake compounds and on several different vehicles: most were street-only vehicles but a couple saw road course driving. A street compound pad could not lock up my race compound tires. And the street compound pads would be worthless after a couple laps. The race compound pad would nearly pull your eyeballs out.

What about ABS? On my Expedition, I’ve only ever activated the ABS in the snow. My better pads, should in theory, activate the ABS in the dry easier. And maybe they would if I pushed the brake pedal harder, but I stop plenty fast without. What I do know is that with “regular” brakes (cuz my factory brakes are long gone) there were times where I was looking for an out (ie jumping up onto the curb, going into the other lane, or making quick peace with rear ending the vehicle in front of me). But with good pads, that doesn’t happen.
What do race compound tires and Laps have to do with an expedition? I clearly stated earlier that they weren't performance vehicles. I have plenty of experience with aftermarket brakes and better compounds on performance or race cars or cruising the street road racing cars too.
You mistake having to have the last word for simply stating my experiences and continue to say them when somebody says there's are different. I'm not trying to change your mind or tell you you're wrong anyway. I said that a lot of people say they feel and improve difference with different pads and they like that feeling. So they are free to do what they want to do. I simply said I've never seen a factory vehicle they didn't have more than adequate brakes.
And no matter what stories or other opinions people share it still doesn't change the fact that I've never driven any Factory vehicle that didn't have more than adequate brakes.
Nothing also will change the fact that the vast majority of SUV owners don't do anything but drive them back and forth to work, get groceries, or transport kids back and forth to school and sporting events. None of this requires anything more than Factory brakes but if people like the feeling they get when they push the pedal then that's their pleasure.
I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong I'm just simply saying, and repeating multiple times, but I don't see the need.
I would also point out again that over 90% of SUV owners probably also don't see the need.

More people put lift kits and larger wheels and tires on their SUVs and trucks then do brake upgrades. I will agree with what you said earlier when you start putting larger wheels and tires oh, at a point, you do get reduced braking ability that is noticeable.
But it's amazing how well they still were considering how much larger than Factory applications you can go. I have had 31, 33, 35, 38.5 , and 44s on various Vehicles over the years. The 44s were on a 79 F350 and I have to say is still had very good brakes.
 

Johnb21

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I look to attempt install on 30th of the month when I have my wife's car at my disposal and some help will be here.

Hi there. Did you get that Willwood kit installed. I was curious outside of looks, if you thought it was worth the time and expense. You may have posted a post-install update thread, but I didn't see it. Thank you!
 

TheDoug

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Hi there. Did you get that Willwood kit installed. I was curious outside of looks, if you thought it was worth the time and expense. You may have posted a post-install update thread, but I didn't see it. Thank you!

Sorry I meant to post about what happened... after Christmas some a-hole rear-ended me and I just got the expy back. I have all parts ready to go. I plan on test fitting this weekend, and if all looks good installing.
 

TheDoug

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How fast was the Fusion going?

It does really suck, but no frame damage and no body damage... just bumper and cover.(and wiring for sensors and stuff)

I was completely stopped at light... not sure how fast he was going when I hit.
 

scottdm

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Looks like the Fusion submarined under the back of your Expy since the bumper bar on the Fusion isn't even bent. I'm sure you were glad to be driving the bigger vehicle, and hope no one was injured. Did they end up having to replace your trailer hitch in addition to the bumper cover?
 

Calidad

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I have personally never had a problem with any truck or SUV Factory braking system. I don't see the need for upgrades but then again, I drive mine like a truck or an SUV and not a high-performance race car. As someone mentioned eventually your way past the attraction and stopping ability of your tires anyways. I feel that the factory stock is almost already at this point.
Most brake upgrades aren't exactly designed for shorter stopping distances or better stopping power even though some do give those results at least early on. Most brake upgrades are designed to be able to break harder, more times in a shorter period of time and handle the immense heat that's built up better without having brake fade.
Anyone driving a truck or an SUV and having brake fade is obviously using the wrong vehicle for the job. These are not Road Race vehicles.

I find that pretty much all modern cars have very capable stock braking ability. On the flip side I rarely ever find my self following a driver that demonstrates proper brake use today. Likely because brake “fade” and failure is so rare it’s something 99.999% of the drivers never experience.

The modification thing is what it is everyone thinks that just bolting on different parts makes them smarter than the engineers that spent considerable time money and technology designing and testing it lol.

I’d say 99% if the braking issues today are user error which case that bolsters the argument that self driving vehicles will be safer method in the future. LOL Can only blame our selves for that result.
 

Calidad

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I am in normal mode. I downshift using the paddle shifter. The transmission only holds the gear for a period of time and then upshifts. How can you mane it so it will not upshift?
I actually find the engine braking with the 3.5 Expedition to be very marginal and basically disappointing. As a result I don’t engine brake as much as I did with my old truck or even in my Subaru. I do try to watch brake use to keep temps down and fully expect brake pads to be short life items. Tho 30,000 on my Sequoia was short life and 60,000 on my Subaru used to tow was decent compared to non towing Subarus in the family doing 80-90,000.
My Land Cruiser was 8,000-15,000 miles per pad set‍♂️.
Guessing the Expedition does 30k per set. Or possibly less we’ll see.
 

TheDoug

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Looks like the Fusion submarined under the back of your Expy since the bumper bar on the Fusion isn't even bent. I'm sure you were glad to be driving the bigger vehicle, and hope no one was injured. Did they end up having to replace your trailer hitch in addition to the bumper cover?

The hitch was fine... he mostly hit the left side, not dead center.
 
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