Can we talk HD Tow one more time?

[3FOR2]

Looking at a Stealth Nomad toy hauler. I'm thinking this is going to be too much with my Yamaha Wolverine X4 in the garage (1920lbs with accessories).

FRONT GAWR: 1531 KG (3375 LB)
GVWR: 3379 KG (7450 LB)
REAR GAWR: 1987 KG (4380 LB)
The combined weight of occupants: and cargo should never exceed: 689 KG (1520 lbs.)

View attachment 69913

Bill,
You might look at

Aluminum Enclosed Trailer Company - Proline Products LLC

PROLine Products hand builds top quality aluminum trailers customized to your needs. Check out our Aluminum Enclosed Trailer Company page!

nhtrailers.com

Family business, super quality, I got a 14’ x 8.5’ Motorcycle trailer, all kinds of options, raised roof, cabinets, still very light. I looked at the Stealth, very nice but heavy.

 

[Fasttimes]

Just came back with my first ever Travel Trailer and thought I would add my reflections and experiences to this thread. My Wife’s family live in Northern Michigan, while we live in South Florida. I bought the camper at a dealer In Northern Michigan, so we drove up, hooked up and then went from there. The camper is a Coachmen Spirit 2454BH weighing 5,500 lb dry. I estimate that we added another 1000 lbs. of stuff. From bumper to ball, the trailer is 29 feet. My Expedition is a 2019 Max AWD with 303A. Prior to the trip, I swapped out the 22” wheels for 18’s with Sumitomo LT tires. I also added Sumo helpers and swapped both front and rear sway bars with Hellwigs. The hitch was set up by the dealer and is an Equalizer 4 way WDH (10,000 lb).

We towed up to the Upper Peninsula and back down to South Florida, mostly on I-75, then I-95 in Florida. According to the Expedition Tow screen, we towed just under 2500 miles. I was very impressed with the power of the Expedition and Tow mode gave this newbie confidence in driving with the trailer. The engine braking and 4A mode was especially welcome on the slippery roads of the Tennessee Mountains during heavy rain and fog. The WDH, plus the Hellwig bars kept sway to a minimum (on I-10 there was a 12 mph cross wind that promoted a little sway). I was not, however, impressed with the gas mileage of 8.5 mpg overall (with 93 octane), but it is what it is (I do admit that I was probably driving closer to 80 mph more often than I should have). I am glad that the max has a 28 gallon tank. I’m also surprised that with my relatively light trailer and Sumo helpers, that there is a fair amount of squat. I don’t think it affected my steering or caused any sway, but just looks a little unbalanced. The next trip, I’ll try to move more weight behind the trailer axles. Overall, my first experience with owning a camper and towing it with the Expedition is a very positive one.

You most likely need to adjust the WDH more. My guess is more weight should be transfered to the front axle, probably moving the arms up one notch. The best thing you can do is get to a CAT scale and get familiar with the process of weighing your set up. You'll be able to see how much weight is being transferred by your WDH and what kind of adjustments you need to make. It's a process, took me a good 2 years till I feel I'm dialed in exactly where I want to be. Finally getting to a scale and making adjustments was the key to finally finding success.

 

[flying68]

Ok so Im comparing my Gen3, 4 wheel drive, Limited with HD Tow (Included with Limited) and if you look at the attached pic compared to the build and capacity tags listed above; my front axle is the same at 3550, rear axle is 4300 (80 short of above) and GVWR 7500, but total capacity is only 1361?

Is this because:
a) this is a Gen 3 with a mostly steel body vs aluminum.
b) The aluminum body of Gen 4 plus more power than Gen3
c) ?? please tell me why.

A
Payload is GVWR - curb weight.

 

[Wayne Decker]

Regarding 93 octane:
My 2019 Platinum says that. I thought it was a platinum thing.

 

[BMW2FORD]

Hi all, 2018 Max Limited, 4wd, 302a with 22 inch wheels and CCD. No HD tow or FX4 package and has captain chairs. Payload on sticker shows 1487! Total GAWR 7600, FGAWR 3550 and RGVWR 4200. I just got the truck and test drove another limited with 20 inch wheels before this one and can feel it rides softer in normal mode but firmer in sport mode. Spring code on door sticker is NNGG. I haven't towed with it yet but looking forward to trying.

 

[Jerald Cook]

Ok so Im comparing my Gen3, 4 wheel drive, Limited with HD Tow (Included with Limited) and if you look at the attached pic compared to the build and capacity tags listed above; my front axle is the same at 3550, rear axle is 4300 (80 short of above) and GVWR 7500, but total capacity is only 1361?

Is this because:
a) this is a Gen 3 with a mostly steel body vs aluminum.
b) The aluminum body of Gen 4 plus more power than Gen3
c) ?? please tell me why.

Switching to aluminum saved approximately 300lbs in vehicle weight, which would mean with the exact same axles, payload capacity would increase by the same 300lbs.

 

[GlennSullivan]

I'd like to report back that while running out to the midwest to pickup the new trailer, I followed the suggestion of using 93 octane, instead of the 87 I have been using in the truck since new and picked up a solid 3MPG both without and with the trailer, thanks for the good advice.

 

[GlennSullivan]

Switching to aluminum saved approximately 300lbs in vehicle weight, which would mean with the exact same axles, payload capacity would increase by the same 300lbs.

Thanks, makes sense.

 

[GlennSullivan]

I've just completed my first long tow trip with our '17 Expedition of 1360 miles from NY to FL. Total truck and trailer package weight was approximately 13,600lb. I usually take the I-95 direct route and schedule around the large cities (DC, Richmond) brutal traffic, but this time decided to try the inland route (78-81-77-26-95) to avoid the large cities and see if it was better - it is not. In general this route has less traffic (except for Charlotte area), but it is 80 miles longer and the RT 81-77 portion has a lot of mountainous terrain.

Anyway, The Expy pulled the 6500lb trailer load and quite a bit of cargo in the truck with no issues. Had about 650lbs of tongue weight which resulted in a very slight rise on front of the vehicle and trailer sway only when very windy. I averaged 12.1 MPG of premium over the entire trip running between 70 and 85 depending on the terrain and speed limits, with the trans temp never getting over 203 degrees even in the 85 degree FL temps.

The Expedition is not a diesel Excursion or F250, but certainly did a very good job and provided a comfortable ride.

 

[Lou Hamilton]

Just added my Timberline specs to the spreasheet.

 

[Gumby]

I have an 18 Expy Plati 4x4 non-HD tow. I just picked up a 2022 Axis T23 wake boat last weekend (waves to @wakeboarder). The trailer and boat came in at an approx 6200 lbs. I know I am right on the line for weight but my travel is very limited (basically from the dealer to the marina and back twice per year - maybe 30 miles). Perhaps it is the gears (I think I have 3.31), but I felt the Expy sluggish going up hills and just ok on flat surfaces. Fuel mileage went nuclear. I had very limited squat and no sway that I could tell. I just replaced my tires with Michelin Premier LTX and they did a fantastic job. I kept the speed around 95km/h and used back roads mostly. No issues at the launch ramp (although it is quite entertaining to watch all the gong shows there).

Note: I am aware that my setup would benefit from HD tow and that box will be checked on my 2023 Expy.

 

[Rob6805]

I have an 18 Expy Plati 4x4 non-HD tow. I just picked up a 2022 Axis T23 wake boat last weekend (waves to @wakeboarder). The trailer and boat came in at an approx 6200 lbs. I know I am right on the line for weight but my travel is very limited (basically from the dealer to the marina and back twice per year - maybe 30 miles). Perhaps it is the gears (I think I have 3.31), but I felt the Expy sluggish going up hills and just ok on flat surfaces. Fuel mileage went nuclear. I had very limited squat and no sway that I could tell. I just replaced my tires with Michelin Premier LTX and they did a fantastic job. I kept the speed around 95km/h and used back roads mostly. No issues at the launch ramp (although it is quite entertaining to watch all the gong shows there).

Note: I am aware that my setup would benefit from HD tow and that box will be checked on my 2023 Expy.

View attachment 73638


View attachment 73640

Yep, it's the gears.

 

[AJ82]

Bumping this thread. Figured since people are starting to get 2022s now it makes sense to add a few more data points. Here is the link from earlier in the thread.

4th Gen Expy Payload

docs.google.com

 

[Lou Hamilton]

Bumping this thread. Figured since people are starting to get 2022s now it makes sense to add a few more data points. Here is the link from earlier in the thread.

4th Gen Expy Payload

docs.google.com

I'm not a Google Sheets guru, but we should also add a Timberline column.

 

[AJ82]

I'm not a Google Sheets guru, but we should also add a Timberline column.

Shouldn't need to add a new column. Just add a new row with your info in it. You can put Timberline under the trim column.

 

[Lou Hamilton]

Shouldn't need to add a new column. Just add a new row with your info in it. You can put Timberline under the trim column.

Brain is fried... I also already added my Timberline. I'm a total moron.

 

[alademann]

2022 Timberline 501A w/ HD tow no engine block heater (I also added to the spreadsheet). @Lou Hamilton I wonder why my payload is 4lbs higher than yours? Do you have the engine block heater? Our GVWR numbers appear identical...

 

[Lou Hamilton]

2022 Timberline 501A w/ HD tow no engine block heater (I also added to the spreadsheet). @Lou Hamilton I wonder why my payload is 4lbs higher than yours? Do you have the engine block heater? Our GVWR numbers appear identical...

View attachment 74135View attachment 74137

Yes, I do have the engine block heater.

 

[DRSpiritUL]

So I'm going to look at one tomorrow with this sticker the dealer took a pick of for me. 1735 payload which is towards the top of the listx but the lowest FGAWR @ 3175 which no one else even has on the spreadsheet. It's a 22 XLT, bench 2nd row with the PR sunroof. Something doesn't add up right.

 

[AJ82]

So I'm going to look at one tomorrow with this sticker the dealer took a pick of for me. 1735 payload which is towards the top of the listx but the lowest FGAWR @ 3175 which no one else even has on the spreadsheet. It's a 22 XLT, bench 2nd row with the PR sunroof. Something doesn't add up right. View attachment 74517

That front axle rating seems to line up with a 2WD XLT on the spreadsheet. Is it a 2WD model?