Car started shaking violently when turned on this morning

[truckguy]

hey guys, got the car to another shop. They took off the valve cover and saw that one of the rocker arm was broken and a tensioner for the timing chain was broken. The camshaft on the right was also damaged. Here's the quote they give me for replacing the camshaft, all the rocker arms and the timing chain. Aside from the parts, the labor is over $2100. Is this quote of labor cost in the ball park of normal range?

 

[bobmbx]

hey guys, got the car to another shop. They took off the valve cover and saw that one of the rocker arm was broken and a tensioner for the timing chain was broken. The camshaft on the right was also damaged. Here's the quote they give me for replacing the camshaft, all the rocker arms and the timing chain. Aside from the parts, the labor is over $2100. Is this quote of labor cost in the ball park of normal range?

View attachment 33872

You could get a re-man installed for $3-4k.

 

[coupe11]

I vote for all the rocker arms to be replaced if they are replacing the camshaft.

Broke a rocker arm shaft on my 82 K5 6.2 (twice - same rocker arm shaft). They replaced the rocker arm shaft and reused all the rocker arms.

The next time it broke (almost 1 year later to the week) I fixed it. I removed the valve cover and broker rocker arm shaft and the sleeve/bearing surface on the rocker arms was nearly worn through to the steel in spots. Surprised/dismayed at the wear for only around 125,000 mile on a diesel I pulled the other rocker arm shafts on the same side and the rocker arms showed very little wear on the bushings pressed into the rocker arms. The issue was the 1st rocker arm shaft and rocker arms had "worn in" together. When they (Chevy place) reused the old rocker arms on a new rocker arm shaft it wore both pretty badly.

Issue was a broken #6 cylinder exhaust valve spring. Pretty damned obvious when you just looked at it. It had been broke long enough the two ends where if broke had worn themselves bright and shiny rubbing against each other. Replaced that spring and the rocker arm shaft and rocker arms and never broke another one.

Don't know if anyone else has seen increase wear from putting used parts together with new parts, but I thought I'd throw that out there. If a rocker arm only cost about $7 each it really wouldn't add that much cost to the repairs.

 

[truckguy]

Yeah, I am not too concerned with the parts cost (although I can definitely save a couple hundred if I buy them myself compared to the quote). I'm more curious about what you guys think about the labor cost for doing this job.

 

[aagitch]

What about a low mile used engine. There's probably plenty of those available.

 

[truckguy]

I got a quote from the last shop for $5k total with a used engine. I think it was about half labor half parts.

 

[TobyU]

I got a quote from the last shop for $5k total with a used engine. I think it was about half labor half parts.

5 grand for used engine is crazy. But of course the shops have no mercy and they live in la la land where they think their prices are okay even good sometimes.
Go to car-part.com and search by ZIP code for engines and see what's available out there. Remember this is not the best way to buy an engine, the best way is to call some of the numbers the ones that don't have price listed.
There are plenty of decent mile used engines for under $1,500. Anyone charging over 1500 to install one is a crook.
I'm going to have to start doing the work for you guys if you're willing to pay these kinds of fees.
Give tow it to my place and I'll put you a good used one in for 3500.
We have to stop going for the mainstream normal prices. Have to shop around and find better deals and be creative.
I won't be any part of it. I will go out of my way and do almost whatever possible to prevent the shops at making this kind of money.

There are plenty of shops that will do the timing chain and gear replacement for between 1200 and $1,800. Now the price of replacing the one rocker arm is almost insignificant because the valve cover will be off anyway.
This price is parts and labor so yes, that quote is quite High. Not saying you won't get plenty more in the same range or even higher but they are all very high.

 

[JExpedition07]

Their diagnosis seems correct to me but price seems high. A proper timing job with oem parts is normally around ($2,000) plus they are replacing the cam and a few followers so I could see a few hundred extra. It really depends on your area labor rates, again I think it seems high. I would think about $2,000-$2,500 for this is fair.

 

[truckguy]

Thanks guys for the feedback. I live in the bay area in northern California, not exactly a cheap area.

How hard is it for me to do it? Is it even doable by an individual? Do I need specialized tools?

 

[truckguy]

I asked for clarification with the shop and the quoted hour was about 15 hours for the job with a rate of 138/hour.

Anybody thinks this is doable individually? Approximately how many hours am I really looking at if I do it myself?

 

[TobyU]

You shouldn't have over 6 or 8 hours in it. The hardest part or at least the most complicated is cutting the chains on correctly and holding the camshafts in the proper spot. You can rent the kit at most local parts stores for free to do it.
Otherwise it's pretty much just a lot of unbolting things step at a time. I find the front cover actually to be easier and less annoying than the valve covers.
Years ago, probably around 1995 or 96, I was working a full-time job and my wife's 87 Grand Am with the 3.0 Buick motor in it lost the timing chain and decided to bend 6 or 8 of the 12 valves in the engine.
Only time I had to work on it was weekends when it was dry and at night after work and sometimes that was by flashlight. We lived in a small house and on street parking only so I literally did this job with the car parked on the curb.
I replaced the timing chain and gears, pulled the heads had them fixed and put it all back together and had 20 hours in it spread over about 8 to 10 days.
Pulling the heads is a lot more work in the chassis and that was Sprout over multiple days and I still only had 20 hours in it.
You must remember that labor rates are supposed to be standardized but they are designed to make more for the garage and the mechanics use to get paid their hourly rate for the number of hours that the book labor rate says it takes. So Everyone likes to have a higher number except the person paying the bill. Most mechanics get things done much faster than what the book calls for which they like because they get the full payment no matter how long it takes them. If they can do for repairs in a day they make more money than doing two .

 

[Jozef Zoldos]

I'm a pretty handy guy myself. I've done a bunch of jobs on my other cars, like water pump, tie rod ends, wheel bearing, shocks, lower control arm, oxygen sensor housing gasket, etc.

Is this job doable by myself?

It is probably doable yourself but it is a pretty big job. I just picked up a 2011 Expy EL with 130K miles that had ticking (without any significant shaking). I took the valve covers off and front cover off and found out that was a bad timing chain tensioner. I replaced the cam phasers, timing chain, sprockets, chain guides, VCT solenoids, and tensioners and put in a new oil pump. I am very much a novice at this whole DIY thing and to do this job, I bought an online workshop repair manual specific for my VIN and also watched a series of 4 videos made by FordTechMakeYouLoco (and did a lot of internet reading). The videos were very helpful in demonstrating the entire process. Once you lift the valve covers and front cover off, you will have a good view of both of the camshafts, all of the lifters and roller followers, all of the valve stems, and the entire timing system. Taking everything apart and looking at what what the problem is will not cost you very much money and it will probably tell you if you have a big catastropic problem or a relatively DIY fixable problem. This is probably the course I would take if you have extra time and want to save money. Links for the manual and videos are below. There is an extra video for oil pump replacement from the same guy. Good luck.


Manual:
https://www.factory-manuals.com/

Videos:

 

[truckguy]

@TobyU @Jozef Zoldos Thanks for the responses. It looks like I can do this. Will give it a shot. Will probably shoot you guys more follow-up questions once I start working on it.

 

[jeff kushner]

Please, not that Toby is wrong mind you, but please anticipate the entire weekend into it. While an accomplished and more important, confident mechanic could knock it out in a reasonable amount of time, just being real.....you don't sound to have that level of confidence that cuts time, you will approach it as you should...slow and studied and you will get it done, but it's going to take you three times longer.

We all take 3 times longer when into something new to us. I remember first time in a motorcycle tranny......looked like a damned clock inside!


Expect the worst......and when it's done, it won't have been, that bad!

jeff

PS, oil EVERYTHING as you reassemble......it won't have residual oil per normal startup. Don't be shy with it.

 

[TobyU]

Please, not that Toby is wrong mind you, but please anticipate the entire weekend into it. While an accomplished and more important, confident mechanic could knock it out in a reasonable amount of time, just being real.....you don't sound to have that level of confidence that cuts time, you will approach it as you should...slow and studied and you will get it done, but it's going to take you three times longer.

We all take 3 times longer when into something new to us. I remember first time in a motorcycle tranny......looked like a damned clock inside!


Expect the worst......and when it's done, it won't have been, that bad!

jeff

PS, oil EVERYTHING as you reassemble......it won't have residual oil per normal startup. Don't be shy with it.

Motorcycle tranny! I'm still a mc transmission virgin. When it involves "splitting the cases" I curse Japanese design for a bit then move on to something else.
I -almost- took apart a 95 CBR900RR my nephew had with a hard knocking sound.
I assumed spun bearing. It was just sitting and he had nothing to lose in trying to fix but we never got together on it.

Even a frickin honda push mower engine has to crack the case apart (whick is on a stupid 45 degree cut) to remove a valve. NO separate head.
I don't get it, dont like it, and almost always say screw that stupidly designed crap. But that's because I don't HAVE to fix it.

 

[Jozef Zoldos]

Please, not that Toby is wrong mind you, but please anticipate the entire weekend into it. While an accomplished and more important, confident mechanic could knock it out in a reasonable amount of time, just being real.....you don't sound to have that level of confidence that cuts time, you will approach it as you should...slow and studied and you will get it done, but it's going to take you three times longer.

We all take 3 times longer when into something new to us. I remember first time in a motorcycle tranny......looked like a damned clock inside!


Expect the worst......and when it's done, it won't have been, that bad!

jeff

PS, oil EVERYTHING as you reassemble......it won't have residual oil per normal startup. Don't be shy with it.

Agree with above. It took me significantly longer that what Toby stated but I am really a novice at this new gig.