Disappointing 4WD performance on snow.

[Gumby]

So I have Auto 4 and use it when we get snow. I have only used SNOW mode once(when we had ALOT of snow). I think Auto paired with dedicated snow tires (I use Blizzaks right now but Nokian or Michelin are good too) will solve the problem. Then again, my winters go on in October and don't come off until April. If you are in a "snow sometimes" place then there are way better all seasons than the lowest bidder Dynapros.

 

[JExpedition07]

are you saying that if we replace our tires with an exact “oem” tire , the tire we purchase as customer to replace it has physically different properties / is technically different than the identical “looking” factory provided tire?

i find this hard to believe - if someone has a flat and purchases a single supposedly identical tire - if the tire wasn’t 100% identical in structure & material, there would be serious safety concerns with a single tire replacement - especially when considering rubber compound & related traction issues with “unmatched” tires -

any additional info to help back up this claim?

Pretty much, I know the Michelins we gave gotten on our company trucks from Ford since I was a kid are not the Michelins I’ve bought off the shelf lol. The tread seems way thinner on the OEM supplies ones and they cup and wear fast. Then you buy the next set from Michelin directly and they last way longer lol.

 

[Jeka]

Got some snow and ice recently and figured the Expy should do well with 4WD auto. Certainly, if I needed top performance in the slow I’d invest in snow tires, but I feel like the Expy should be able to deal with the relatively mild and infrequent snow here. But even on a minimal incline, 4-auto struggled to maintain forward progress.

My other vehicle (also on all seasons) has a selectable 4-hi mode that locks the differential and it has zero issues.

I think the issue with the Expy is that it waits for a lot of slip to occur before actually transferring power to the front axle, and by then it is too late.

Kind of disappointed that the Expy does not offer a manual 4-hi mode option as standard.

In 4A Normal Mode front axle is engaged all the time when you start moving or accelerating (up to certain speed - no sure the exact number, somewhere above 100km/h, imo). Front axle disengages when you cruise at steady speed.

Not all All-seasons are equal. As many mentioned, stock Hankooks are total garbage.

 

[LokiWolf]

Tires make all of the difference in the world. My 2018 Expedition Platinum came with Hankook Dynapro's. My previous 2015 Expedition Platinum came with Pirelli Scorpion Verde Plus 22" tires. Both the Hankook's and Pirelli's are All Season tires meant for a smooth ride. There is a major difference between the two tires. Both are the same 22" size. The Hankook's are absolutely terrible on wet and any kind of snow. My experience with the Pirelli's was much better. They did much better in rain and snow. Not to mention that they were so much quieter at high speeds. I suspect that Ford made the move to Hankook because of price. Their quote to Ford was probably significantly lower than other brands. You'd think Ford would splurge a little bit for tires on a $80K vehicle. I totally enjoy my 2018 Platinum, expect for the Hankook tires and the stupid auto stop/start which you can't permanently turn off.

Had the Scorpion Verde Plus's in 21 on my previous Edge from the Factory. They did do really well in almost every condition. Decent in summer, and never left me stranded in Snow.

My point with the Hankook's is I think they are fine. Will they be what I choose to replace with, no. Our Expy is tuned, and is over a second quicker than a stock Platinum, and many 10ths quicker than a stock Navi, and I have never felt they were dangerous at all. Again, drove them in the crap we got in VA yesterday, and no issues(with the tires...skid plates...well that is another thread). I expect that if I step on it on a wet surface, that it will invoke Traction Control...especially if changing direction at the time. It did that stock in 2WD.

This will take care of the Start/Stop. I personally have no issue with it.

Auto Start/Stop Eliminator:
https://www.autostopeliminator.com/...on-autostop-eliminator?variant=29396654161984

 

[CaptOchs]

In 4A Normal Mode front axle is engaged all the time when you start moving or accelerating (up to certain speed - no sure the exact number, somewhere above 100km/h, imo). Front axle disengages when you cruise at steady speed.

Not all All-seasons are equal. As many mentioned, stock Hankooks are total garbage.

That sucks. I had a 2003 and I loved the 4H. I had Goodyear Trailrunners; kind of a mix of highway tire and mud tire. I could go 55mph through snow covered highway while other cars were spinning out. No issues. I traded my camper in the middle of February. It was 6000lbs. I pulled it through a field of snow about a foot high. No issues!

 

[JasonH]

Got some snow and ice recently and figured the Expy should do well with 4WD auto. Certainly, if I needed top performance in the slow I’d invest in snow tires, but I feel like the Expy should be able to deal with the relatively mild and infrequent snow here. But even on a minimal incline, 4-auto struggled to maintain forward progress.

My other vehicle (also on all seasons) has a selectable 4-hi mode that locks the differential and it has zero issues.

I think the issue with the Expy is that it waits for a lot of slip to occur before actually transferring power to the front axle, and by then it is too late.

Kind of disappointed that the Expy does not offer a manual 4-hi mode option as standard.

Snow traction is all about tires. Think about this: going straight is nice...but how can you stop and turn without traction? My Cooper XLTs did great in snow/ice in New Mexico a few weeks ago. My Expedition is 4x2.

Here's an interesting comparison:

 

[Jeka]

That sucks. I had a 2003 and I loved the 4H. I had Goodyear Trailrunners; kind of a mix of highway tire and mud tire. I could go 55mph through snow covered highway while other cars were spinning out. No issues. I traded my camper in the middle of February. It was 6000lbs. I pulled it through a field of snow about a foot high. No issues!

Don't get me wrong, 4A is pretty awesome - I leave it on all the time in winter. Electronics do pretty good job in 99% of the time. I also have HD Tow package which includes eLSD and I can say sometimes it kicks in automatically before engages traction control through the ABS/brakes, without need me to press a button to lock rear diff. All of that + Michelin Latitude X-Ice makes my set up almost bulletproof.
If I had to choose between 4H and 4A, I would take 4A any day. If I really need something extreme, I can go to 4L which locks transfer case in 50/50 mode without traction control, plus manually lock rear diff.
Some MT/AT tires could possible give you better traction in fresh snow, but nothing beats proper winter tires going downhill from a local ski mountain on curvy icy road...

 

[Anerbe]

Tires make all of the difference in the world. My 2018 Expedition Platinum came with Hankook Dynapro's. My previous 2015 Expedition Platinum came with Pirelli Scorpion Verde Plus 22" tires. Both the Hankook's and Pirelli's are All Season tires meant for a smooth ride. There is a major difference between the two tires. Both are the same 22" size. The Hankook's are absolutely terrible on wet and any kind of snow. My experience with the Pirelli's was much better. They did much better in rain and snow. Not to mention that they were so much quieter at high speeds. I suspect that Ford made the move to Hankook because of price. Their quote to Ford was probably significantly lower than other brands. You'd think Ford would splurge a little bit for tires on a $80K vehicle. I totally enjoy my 2018 Platinum, expect for the Hankook tires and the stupid auto stop/start which you can't permanently turn off.

The Pirelli Scorpions that were OE on the Gen 3 Expedition are still available to fit on vehicle (285/45R22). This might be a good alternative to the stock.

 

[powder4breakfast]

Not sure which stock tires we're talking about... Hanooks or Michelins, but I'd like to add that the stock Michelin Primacy XC's are total garbage in Snow. I live on the benches of the Wasatch Front range at 5000' elevation. We drive up the canyon to ski and visit family in the canyon many times a week through the winter. I have driven many cars and SUV's and this is the worst tire I've personally owned in snow bar none.

All though an All Season tire, it's noted to have "All Terrain Traction" on Michelin's site. We have yet to swap them out, but we no longer drive it in snow. We use our Honda CR-V with Toyo Open Country AT III's instead. The Expedition made one initial run up the canyon in snow for a ski day and it was so bad, my wife could not make a bypass road and had to wait for the main road to open back up. Never again will she drive it in poor conditions unless new true A/T rubber is put on.

Everyone's idea of what a bad snow situation looks like is different and I admit that for us, a bad day is likely heavier than many other's view based on our location. Therefore I would never expect an All Season tire to perform as well as what we need, but I definitely expected more than what these Michelins can give. Sucks to replace rubber with plenty of tread life left so we let it sit on bad days and drive our CR-V for now. True A/T's always go on every vehicle of ours when we do replace tires.

 

[jastevenson]

Does anyone know if the standard XLT without any special packages has an electronic (not mechanical) LSD?

I wonder if lack of an LSD of any kind is contributing to the issue. The electronic LSD brakes the wheel with low traction to allow the other wheel to get some power, and is basically free for the manufacturer to add (they already have wheelspin sensors), so I would be surprised if there is no e-LSD, but not sure if anyone knows for sure.