Disappointing 4WD performance on snow.

[Rezolution]

In snow, put it in snow mode, don't use 4A or "Normal" 4A. Snow mode still uses traction control. You can manually turn the traction control off. Snow mode also retards the throttle a bit.

If the snow is deep or it's icy, use mud/ruts. Mud/ruts locks it 50/50 and disables traction control by default. Don't drive fast in mud/ruts or do too much turning...

 

[Jimmer]

In snow, put it in snow mode, don't use 4A or "Normal" 4A. Snow mode still uses traction control. You can manually turn the traction control off. Snow mode also retards the throttle a bit.

If the snow is deep or it's icy, use mud/ruts. Mud/ruts locks it 50/50 and disables traction control by default. Don't drive fast in mud/ruts or do too much turning...

I agree, my preferred setting combination for snow driving is:

Snow mode with a double tap on the traction control button to put the traction control settings in "Sport Mode."

This allows a little more wheel slip without TC cutting back the power when I want/need to use throttle input to either help rotate the vehicle in the right direction via oversteer, or utilize power to the front wheels to help "pull" the vehicle in the direction I'm wanting to go.

This combination does not eliminate the lazier throttle response, which I wish it would, but is the best combination I can come up with since there is no customizable drive mode. Would really love to see a custom mode (or two) available in the future.

 

[Yupster Dog]

I can see now when I get my new expy I will have to keep the old one,
1 To keep the salt off the new truck.
2 To go 4H in the snow full out balls to the wall fun without the computer retarding anything, although the driver could be a bit retarded.

-not like the 30 of us here represent--well 30 of a bazillion people who would be putting diesel in their gas SUVs if it wasn't that the nozzle don't fit.

YA that does suck, they will never put an option on or have a setting just for the 30, only for the 30 billion idiots do they cater to.
I mean who wouldn't want to post a pic with a diesel nozzle hanging out of the expy.

 

[5280tunage]

For all the OE marked tires: BMW Star, Mercedes MO, etc... which come on their vehicles, are you saying that none of those are available in the aftermarket? All of the star marked BMW runflats to buy from Tirerack are actually a completely separate developed runflat marked with BMW?

Simple way to verify is check the full DOT codes of the tires you receive as aftermarket and compare to the original tires on the vehicle (or the P/N). I'm sure you'll find most of the same size / product line specs have the same DOT code as what was found on the vehicle (except the date code obviously).

No, if you saw the previous posts, and the one I replied to, i was specifically talking about the tires that are created specifically for OEM use, that, and to you response, Hankook makes tires for Ford that actually use the exact same series and models, but are slightly different to decrease costs. As I said, having worked at one of the largest tire shops out there, we used to do that a lot. We would get someone in that had a road hazard issue on a set of stock tires, and even if we had the same tire in stock, it may have actually had different DOT certs. Sometimes it's things like trad depth may be a little less, composition might be slightly different, in fact, some brands are making tires different right now so that car manufacturers can pass EPA requirements a little easier. But the consumer version of that very same tire may be different.

All I was referring to is those "custom" versions for vehicle manufacturers aren't typically going to show up on aftermarket sites, as they aren't orderable by consumers. And just as a side note, I actually had this exact issue on my last vehicle. Destroyed a stock tire offroad, and the not only was the replacement slightly higher tread depth than the stock tires (and they only had about 2k miles on them), but they were stiffer. Which was noticeable in some conditions.

 

[MxRacer965]

I live in W. Michigan, we generally get a good amount of snow if for no other reason due to lake effect. I’ve thought of my Expedition as a tank. It plows through everything I’ve seen so far with it much more sure footed than any other AWD/4A vehicle I’ve had. This includes a 2004 Grand Cherokee LTD, 2011 Grand Cherokee Summit, 2008 Infiniti M45x (x is AWD), and a 2015 Lincoln MKS AWD. Do I think the Grand Cherokee’s Quadra Drive is a bit better overall? Yeah. I think it engaged 4WD a little quicker and smoother. The Infiniti and Lincoln are my wife’s DD so I don’t get a lot of seat time in those but if memory serves those are full time AWD. Tires on those cars made big differences according to her. They still aren’t as confidence inspiring as the Expedition to me.

Generally though I find the Expedition to be extremely confidence inspiring driving through anything. Almost too much so. I find myself feeling like I can easy go faster than other vehicles around me. I have to temper that urge quite often...

 

[Modelcarguy]

What a surprise. Car tech is no replacement for “human” tech. At the first hint of trouble the question should have been - if the automated systems can’t handle it, how do I correct the problem?

Don’t blame the truck, point the finger where it belongs - at the person behind the wheel.

Too much of the time people forget they are the final answer to a problem. Stop what you’re doing, assess the situation and correct the problem. Tech, in any form can only do so much, anticipate so much. It is a helpmate to safely operate the vehicle, and doesn’t remove you from the chain of command.

 

[lurch]

I drive over mountain passes in the early morning while they are still snow-covered most weekends November - April. I hit one a few weeks ago that still had over a foot of untouched snow on it and the Expy drove up in fine in 4A w/ normal mode As what most people in the thread have already stated, snow performance differences between most AWD/4wd vehicles are really tire differences.

 

[Jimmer]

What a surprise. Car tech is no replacement for “human” tech. At the first hint of trouble the question should have been - if the automated systems can’t handle it, how do I correct the problem?

Don’t blame the truck, point the finger where it belongs - at the person behind the wheel.

Too much of the time people forget they are the final answer to a problem. Stop what you’re doing, assess the situation and correct the problem. Tech, in any form can only do so much, anticipate so much. It is a helpmate to safely operate the vehicle, and doesn’t remove you from the chain of command.

Couldn't agree more. I'm not sure about others, but my main motive in discussing all this is to figure out what/why/how the "Car Tech" intervenes so if I get into a situation where the "car tech" is in over its head (or counterproductive) I can make the appropriate driver inputs to remedy the situation. The more complicated the tech gets, the more difficult it becomes for a skilled driver to intervene in a productive way.

My last truck was a 2014 F150 platinum. When it was snowing hard and the roads got really bad, i would always put it in 4H and turn off the traction control. To me, this was allowing me to feel out the conditions better (without a false sense of security from traction control until it was too late) and use my skills as a driver to react how I had learned- while limiting potential intervention from the "Car tech." I always worry that the Car Tech could potentially negate my driver inputs or create a situation where my inputs combined with the tech inputs make the situation worse instead of better. By utilizing 4H and getting rid of most of the traction control's input, I felt like i was in the best position to safely feel out the road conditions and proceed appropriately.

The problem I have now is that I'm on the front end of the learning curve in my 2020 Expedition, and without an actual 4H, I am unable to replicate how I drove my F150. I am trying to learn how the car tech intervenes in different driving modes and traction control settings so that I can better use my abilities as a driver along with the car tech to actually drive safely and not just have a false sense of security until it's too late. Having blizzaks on almost hurts this situation as it adds another "safety feature" that helps me feel safer but still has limitations. Since the limitations are higher, the danger also increases when those limitations are surpassed.

Having a 1 year old in the car really changes a guy's perspective on things!

 

[Fozzy]

Kinda off topic but do the new 10 speed F-150’s have a 4H. My last F-150 was a 16’ and had it and my 18’ Superduty has it but they both have the 6 speed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Brucek50]

Even with Mud&Snow Ice is tough. I've been over Sierras in a blizzard in the snow but slid all the way thru Tahoe on ice.

 

[Wangle]

Great thread! I have several things to comment on. We bought a private party 1999 Explorer in 2003. They didn’t even know it had low range. It took a few times in and out before it worked properly. A high percentage of people just don’t need it.
ALL of our original tires over the last two decades are/were sub-par. Less tread depth, mainly. 8/32 instead of 10-12/32nd’s. Check the UTQG ratings. The original Toyo Cross Country’s are “300” and started at 8/32. They seem decent enough in snow, but are a little noisy. We will keep them a few years. We just put a set of Michelin Defenders on a small SUV. Original Yokohama rating was “330”. The Michelin is rated at “820”. Of course, this needs to be balanced with other factors such as wet/dry snow/ice performance.
Our previous vehicle was a 2003 Expedition. It confused me when I did not have a “4H” button on our new 2018. In our experience 4A in snow mode mirrors the old 4H.

 

[carymccarr]

What a surprise. Car tech is no replacement for “human” tech. At the first hint of trouble the question should have been - if the automated systems can’t handle it, how do I correct the problem?

Don’t blame the truck, point the finger where it belongs - at the person behind the wheel.

Too much of the time people forget they are the final answer to a problem. Stop what you’re doing, assess the situation and correct the problem. Tech, in any form can only do so much, anticipate so much. It is a helpmate to safely operate the vehicle, and doesn’t remove you from the chain of command.

Yeah sure. All true.

But some vehicles and tires are simply better in the snow than others [emoji2369]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Anerbe]

Almost all tires found on vehicles from the factory are developed specifically for that vehicle during the vehicle chassis. It's not too common for "carryover" or "off the shelf" tires to be fitted on a vehicle from the factory, but it does happen I would say 10-15% of the time.

DOT Codes do change on both the vehicle and OEM as well as aftermarket, so if you have a 2015 vehicle with OEM tires, there's a decent chance that both the current OEM tires on the 2021 model and the aftermarket may have a DOT change.

You can choose very specific situations, but overall, I go back to the quote I referenced for my reply:

"I would highly doubt that OEM tires would ever show up on an external site. They would 99% of the time be direct order between manufacturers. Just my .02."

I would say 90% of the OEM tires on vehicles found currently in production can be found and ordered as an exactly same (or newest spec on vehicle) tire from Tire Rack, Discount tire, etc...

Am I saying this is the only tire spec available in this size/speed/LI/product line? Not at all. It's common for tire manufacturers to sell seemingly similar tires on paper/sidewall description with different attributes to focus on different performance to tune for other OE use, or for replacement sales.

Take for instance a very popular product, the Michelin Latitude Tour HP:

Michelin Latitude Tour HP (tirerack.com)

235/60R18 103V has two variants (see attached). One is not specified for an OEM, with a higher Tread Depth, other is OE specific NO (Porsche fitment) at a lower tread depth. You can buy both.

Look down the fitment list of the Tour HP in general from the link - 80% are the OEM fitment from the factory. OEM suppliers are required per their terms and conditions with the OEM's to keep the factory specifications available in the market where their vehicles are sold, or if product changes were made on vehicle, which happens, to make this latest factory spec available in the market. Again, this does not stop tire manufacturers to create a second product to also make available to the customers with adjustments done to cater more to the end consumer (wear, comfort, winter, etc...) as seen on the attachment.

I'm not here to create any conflict - this is coming from someone who has worked in the OE supplier industry for 18 years, 14 on the tire side.

No, if you saw the previous posts, and the one I replied to, i was specifically talking about the tires that are created specifically for OEM use, that, and to you response, Hankook makes tires for Ford that actually use the exact same series and models, but are slightly different to decrease costs. As I said, having worked at one of the largest tire shops out there, we used to do that a lot. We would get someone in that had a road hazard issue on a set of stock tires, and even if we had the same tire in stock, it may have actually had different DOT certs. Sometimes it's things like trad depth may be a little less, composition might be slightly different, in fact, some brands are making tires different right now so that car manufacturers can pass EPA requirements a little easier. But the consumer version of that very same tire may be different.

All I was referring to is those "custom" versions for vehicle manufacturers aren't typically going to show up on aftermarket sites, as they aren't orderable by consumers. And just as a side note, I actually had this exact issue on my last vehicle. Destroyed a stock tire offroad, and the not only was the replacement slightly higher tread depth than the stock tires (and they only had about 2k miles on them), but they were stiffer. Which was noticeable in some conditions.

 

[5280tunage]

It's all good, it's a good discussion. We both have examples of both outcomes. I think both outcomes can certainly occur in this industry. Thanks for your insight.

 

[DWs-TTEB]

check out these OEM 37" BFGoodrich KO2s that come on the new MY21 Raptor:
@ 6:49 in the video is the tire part.

 

[edizzle]

one thing is for sure, the factory hankooks are shit in the snow and ice. thats a fact. i think they are perfectly fine tires otherwise, but in the snow they are terrible. i mean why would they be? they are 285 45 22!!! these could easily be on the rear of a camaro or mustang!! they are wide and do not have the tread, compound or anything helpful to be driving in the snow. the all wheel drive system is quite capable as i was attempting to traverse my steep driveway it was doing all the right things, but the tires were like four slicks packed with snow!!! i turned off traction control, locked the rear and left it in sport and it made a valiant effort, throwing roosts from all four tires, but alas, it wasnt meant to be!!! LOL. to be fair this was one of the worst snows we have had in terms of type of snow. it was heavy wet snow.

 

[Deadman]

I got hung up today o a plowed driveway that was uphill. 4x4 wouldn't pull me up unless I hit it with a run of momentum. Stock tires are sooooo horrible.

 

[John I]

Are the 22” Hankooks the same tires that come on the Expy models with 20” wheels, specifically the Dynapro ATM?

 

[Lou Hamilton]

Are the 22” Hankooks the same tires that come on the Expy models with 20” wheels, specifically the Dynapro ATM?

No, the 22’s are DynaPro HT.

I used the AT-M’s (LT model, not the P ones) on a previous vehicle and loved them .


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[SublimeHiPpOs]

No, if you saw the previous posts, and the one I replied to, i was specifically talking about the tires that are created specifically for OEM use, that, and to you response, Hankook makes tires for Ford that actually use the exact same series and models, but are slightly different to decrease costs. As I said, having worked at one of the largest tire shops out there, we used to do that a lot. We would get someone in that had a road hazard issue on a set of stock tires, and even if we had the same tire in stock, it may have actually had different DOT certs. Sometimes it's things like trad depth may be a little less, composition might be slightly different, in fact, some brands are making tires different right now so that car manufacturers can pass EPA requirements a little easier. But the consumer version of that very same tire may be different.

All I was referring to is those "custom" versions for vehicle manufacturers aren't typically going to show up on aftermarket sites, as they aren't orderable by consumers. And just as a side note, I actually had this exact issue on my last vehicle. Destroyed a stock tire offroad, and the not only was the replacement slightly higher tread depth than the stock tires (and they only had about 2k miles on them), but they were stiffer. Which was noticeable in some conditions.

The dealer put a nail in one of my 18's OEM Hankooks, finally got them to take responsibility and replace it with a new one. Do you think replacement tires from dealerships are the lower "OEM" quality tires, or consumer-grade?