Disappointing 4WD performance on snow.

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JExpedition07

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Don't get me wrong, 4A is pretty awesome - I leave it on all the time in winter. Electronics do pretty good job in 99% of the time. I also have HD Tow package which includes eLSD and I can say sometimes it kicks in automatically before engages traction control through the ABS/brakes, without need me to press a button to lock rear diff. All of that + Michelin Latitude X-Ice makes my set up almost bulletproof.
If I had to choose between 4H and 4A, I would take 4A any day. If I really need something extreme, I can go to 4L which locks transfer case in 50/50 mode without traction control, plus manually lock rear diff.
Some MT/AT tires could possible give you better traction in fresh snow, but nothing beats proper winter tires going downhill from a local ski mountain on curvy icy road...

The problem isnt that 4A is bad. The problem is that Ford sort of went backwards on the 4WD. All the older Expeditions have 2H,4A,4H,4L modes standard on all 4WD models. Why Ford removed 4 Low as a standard item for a 4x4 equipped truck is beyond me...kind of annoying you now have to look far and wide for what should be an easy to find option.
 

LokiWolf

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Does anyone know if the standard XLT without any special packages has an electronic (not mechanical) LSD?

I wonder if lack of an LSD of any kind is contributing to the issue. The electronic LSD brakes the wheel with low traction to allow the other wheel to get some power, and is basically free for the manufacturer to add (they already have wheelspin sensors), so I would be surprised if there is no e-LSD, but not sure if anyone knows for sure.

You are slightly misinformed across the Board.

The ELSD is not a brake the wheel LSD, while the Traction control does do that the ELSD in these Trucks uses clutches that are electronically actuated in the Rear Diff.

It is in most cases FAR better than a mechanical LSD, because it activates and turns off MUCH quicker.

It also has a lock mode, now not a true locker like the F150's, it simulates a locker by using the clutches.

I know the Heavy Tow equipped Expeditions have the ELSD, I am not sure about the Non-Heavy Tow.
 

LokiWolf

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The problem isnt that 4A is bad. The problem is that Ford sort of went backwards on the 4WD. All the older Expeditions have 2H,4A,4H,4L modes standard on all 4WD models. Why Ford removed 4 Low as a standard item for a 4x4 equipped truck is beyond me...kind of annoying you now have to look far and wide for what should be an easy to find option.

Pretty easy. Heavy Tow or FX4 has it, others don't. For most Soccer Mom's 4L is just not needed and will never be used. At least we can still get it!
 

Jeka

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The problem isnt that 4A is bad. The problem is that Ford sort of went backwards on the 4WD. All the older Expeditions have 2H,4A,4H,4L modes standard on all 4WD models. Why Ford removed 4 Low as a standard item for a 4x4 equipped truck is beyond me...kind of annoying you now have to look far and wide for what should be an easy to find option.
Maybe Ford got sick for all the warranty claims from soccer moms who drove their expeditions in 4H all the time? :)
Someone here mentioned that you still can get 4H through the drive modes, I believe the front axel clutch is locked in mud/ruts and sand modes. But not sure.
 

Meeker

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Not sure which stock tires we're talking about... Hanooks or Michelins, but I'd like to add that the stock Michelin Primacy XC's are total garbage in Snow. I live on the benches of the Wasatch Front range at 5000' elevation. We drive up the canyon to ski and visit family in the canyon many times a week through the winter. I have driven many cars and SUV's and this is the worst tire I've personally owned in snow bar none.

All though an All Season tire, it's noted to have "All Terrain Traction" on Michelin's site. We have yet to swap them out, but we no longer drive it in snow. We use our Honda CR-V with Toyo Open Country AT III's instead. The Expedition made one initial run up the canyon in snow for a ski day and it was so bad, my wife could not make a bypass road and had to wait for the main road to open back up. Never again will she drive it in poor conditions unless new true A/T rubber is put on.

Everyone's idea of what a bad snow situation looks like is different and I admit that for us, a bad day is likely heavier than many other's view based on our location. Therefore I would never expect an All Season tire to perform as well as what we need, but I definitely expected more than what these Michelins can give. Sucks to replace rubber with plenty of tread life left so we let it sit on bad days and drive our CR-V for now. True A/T's always go on every vehicle of ours when we do replace tires.
My 2018 XLT came with the 18" Primacy tires and I second everything you say about them. I'm in Canada and that first winter was a bit dicey. Much worse than the Continentals that came with my 2006 Expy. I went to Michelin AT/2 LT tires and am very happy. Not full winter tires but good enough that I don't feel any desire to swap tires twice a year.
 

shane_th_ee

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You are slightly misinformed across the Board.

The ELSD is not a brake the wheel LSD, while the Traction control does do that the ELSD in these Trucks uses clutches that are electronically actuated in the Rear Diff.

It is in most cases FAR better than a mechanical LSD, because it activates and turns off MUCH quicker.

It also has a lock mode, now not a true locker like the F150's, it simulates a locker by using the clutches.

I know the Heavy Tow equipped Expeditions have the ELSD, I am not sure about the Non-Heavy Tow.
The confusion is that some competitors (I’m looking at you, Armada) refer to traction control/ABS pseudo-LSDs as “electronic limited slip differentials”. Whereas Ford’s 3.73 eLSD is a completely different animal.
 

LokiWolf

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The confusion is that some competitors (I’m looking at you, Armada) refer to traction control/ABS pseudo-LSDs as “electronic limited slip differentials”. Whereas Ford’s 3.73 eLSD is a completely different animal.

Yep, It is a legit LSD, just Electronically controlled.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

vincentrose

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I know that for a few years, Not all 4 drive modes were available. Mine is a 2014, and it has 4 modes 2H, 4A,4H,4L. 4A Works pretty good in the mud, Havent had a chance to try it in the snow yet, since it hasnt snowed here in SC yet. But you should NEVER use 4H on dry pavement, but 4A is ok on any surface
 

Calidad

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The problem isnt that 4A is bad. The problem is that Ford sort of went backwards on the 4WD. All the older Expeditions have 2H,4A,4H,4L modes standard on all 4WD models. Why Ford removed 4 Low as a standard item for a 4x4 equipped truck is beyond me...kind of annoying you now have to look far and wide for what should be an easy to find option.
Cost and moving to compete with AWD vehicles where 4low isn’t a concern. They simply dropped the transfer case and lowered cost.
 

JExpedition07

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Pretty easy. Heavy Tow or FX4 has it, others don't. For most Soccer Mom's 4L is just not needed and will never be used. At least we can still get it!

True but think it should be included with 4WD. You get 4 low on the F-150 as long as you check 4WD on the build sheet. Very useful for hauling boats out etc, not always something HD tow is needed for. I get Fords point because it probably saves costs on the transfer case but they kinda made it more difficult than it has to be.
 
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