Ford and Corrosion Control?

[LRNAD90]

So I am not an Expedition owner. Honestly, I’ve never actually owned a domestic car. Mostly European and Asian brands in my lifetime. My wife’s current ride (a BMW X5) is in the body shop after being rear ended, and we have a 2017 Expedition as a loaner right now. My wife is enjoying the size and ‘plushness’ of the ride currently. I have to admit liking it as well, so I’ve been doing a little research about possibly purchasing one.

I’m concerned there seems to be a theme of corrosion issues though (many threads talking about rusted out rockers, poor prep corrosion issues on aluminum hatches and hoods, and I see lots of rusted dash and under dash brackets in relatively new trucks in threads for other things).

Being a car guy, I also already crawled around and under our rental. And was surprised to see so many surfaces left unpainted or treated. The shafts of drive axles, the rear differential, etc appear to have never been painted, and are all rusted over on a 20K mile vehicle that is 1-2 years old max.

Starting to wonder if these can stand the test of time in a state that sees snow, and salted roads??

 

[jeff kushner]

Okay, I'll chime in.............my '17 is my 3rd Expy. My children are grown and I remain single so it's kind of obvious that I buy a car/truck based on what I like, not what I "need"

.....all the "luxury" small suvs bounced like a ball or replicated a "sports" suspension according to the manufacturers which is misleading since it's VERY difficult to engineer a smooth ride for something that small and light so they just call it "Sports".

Maybe your research should be on Rust and how it protects some metals....

Yes, the rear shock towers rusted on my '99 Expy.........after 220,000 miles so did I have a rust problem or was a quarter million miles a good life for a truck?

jeff

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

I bought a new 2015 Ford Expedition Limited 4x4. It has been meticulously maintained and never wrecked or damaged.

The paint on the rear hatch began to bubble before the base warranty expired. I learned too late that Ford did a miserable job of corrosion protection on the aluminum hood and trunk panels of the third generation Expedition and Navigator models.

Ford has been aware of the corrosion issues for years and chose not to correct the poor quality.

I’m so irritated at the poor corrosion treatment on my 2015 Expediton that I will never buy another Ford product with aluminum panels.

Do a search on this forum and you will see MANY posts about the aluminum corrosion and paint bubbling, and the rocker panels rusting out.

 

[LRNAD90]

Maybe your research should be on Rust and how it protects some metals....


jeff

Maybe I'm missing something that you can fill me in on..


I’m trying to think about what you are eluding to, but without success..
Some metals can be used as sacrificial metals to protect others, but they deteriorate quickly by design to protect other metals from doing so..
But this doesn’t seem to be what you are referencing..

I'm really not aware of how rust protects Iron or Iron based metals (Steel in this case)..
Only how it removes material layer by layer until it is no more..

 

[07xln]

One thing you'll learn about Jeff is even though it looks like he's speaking English his posts are very rambling and hard to understand as he never directly references the subject at hand in his posts, he merely hints at it.


Ive not noticed any issues with the paint on my 17 model. During oil changes I have noticed the ends of the axles like you mentioned. Then I look under the other 3 cars I own and they all look the same so I pay no attention to it

 

[Flexpedition]

Not trying to come off the wrong way here, but if a person were to try to judge or gauge any brands quality, value, or reliability off of an internet forum, they'd never buy a BMW. Ever. Especially an X5, with its inherent transmission failures, cooling system failures, complete engine failures, electrical woes, and so on. We also have CNN-like epidemic forums here just like the BMW sites.

We bought a used 5-series with 20K miles on it and its been a great car. Not a perfect car, but very good. Problems have been few and far between but almost always expensive when they rear their head. And more complicated than they should be.

Our 2008 Expedition, purchased new, has had minor surface rust in the areas you mention since day one. Its spent some time in Cleveland and Pittsburgh during winter months. Its spent some time in Cleveland and Pittsburgh carwashes. Zero rocker rust, no hood or hatch corrosion.

In my experience, when it comes to being trouble-free, the Expedition has been superior to the BMW.

 

[JExpedition07]

I have bubbles on my hatch (minor) and rusting rocker panels. My truck has been here in New York its whole life. My aunt who also has two expys one being an 08 purchased new also has rocker panel rust, her hatch bubbling. Trucks other than ‘corrosion’ have been solid vehicles. I have new rocker panels sitting in my garage when I’m ready to tackle it nor am I afraid of it. Good vehicles built on a solid platform but like any aren’t without hiccups. The rust you describe us normal of any newer vehicle.

 

[LRNAD90]

Not trying to come off the wrong way here, but if a person were to try to judge or gauge any brands quality, value, or reliability off of an internet forum, they'd never buy a BMW. Ever. Especially an X5, with its inherent transmission failures, cooling system failures, complete engine failures, electrical woes, and so on. We also have CNN-like epidemic forums here just like the BMW sites.


We bought a used 5-series with 20K miles on it and its been a great car. Not a perfect car, but very good. Problems have been few and far between but almost always expensive when they rear their head. And more complicated than they should be.


Our 2008 Expedition, purchased new, has had minor surface rust in the areas you mention since day one. Its spent some time in Cleveland and Pittsburgh during winter months. Its spent some time in Cleveland and Pittsburgh carwashes. Zero rocker rust, no hood or hatch corrosion.


In my experience, when it comes to being trouble-free, the Expedition has been superior to the BMW.

Not trying to upset anyone here, and appreciate everyone's feedback. I'm just trying to do my due diligence. I guess everyone’s mileage and experience varies between brands. Our X5 is 12 yo, has 217,000 essentially trouble free miles, on original engine and transmission. It has never left us stranded, and really I’ve only done pretty much maintenance and mileage related repairs (brakes, CVs, belts, hoses, gaskets, etc). I did have to replace the fuel pump around 200K miles, but even that is a life limited component, and that’s not an unreasonable life for that component in my eyes. Right now it has some oil leaks that need to be attended to, but otherwise runs well. But its getting old, and replacement talks have started. And although I’d never have considered an Expedition before, the rental has been mostly enjoyable..

I have bubbles on my hatch (minor) and rusting rocker panels. My truck has been here in New York its whole life. My aunt who also has two expys one being an 08 purchased new also has rocker panel rust, her hatch bubbling. Trucks other than ‘corrosion’ have been solid vehicles. I have new rocker panels sitting in my garage when I’m ready to tackle it nor am I afraid of it. Good vehicles built on a solid platform but like any aren’t without hiccups. The rust you describe us normal of any newer vehicle.

The Aluminum corrosion on the hatch and hoods seems to be a pretty wide spread issue, and it seems pretty clear that Ford neither cared to fix it, nor to take care of its customers. It sounds like it’s a gamble with bad odds to purchase one and think it won’t be an issue.


As for the undercarriage components, its probably a matter of deciding it won’t significantly impact safety or reliability in the vehicle’s expected lifetime, but just seems odd as most cars I have owned, the manufacturer paints or coats these same parts in some manner to prevent or at least delay the effects of corrosion. Cost cutting matter I am sure, whether it will become an issue during ownership or not I don’t know. Sounds like no one seems to have any resulting issues to be concerned about, so that’s good to hear at least..

 

[jeff kushner]

Like I said, do the research....but you are very, very wrong in your suppositions. I have a section of iron pipe that was installed over 120 years ago in a very famous DC building. It remained in use for the entire 120+ years that it was installed. It's still a viable piece of pipe but how could that be based on what you said??

Iron oxide forms a protective coating which in turn prevents/slows way down, further oxidation.

I expect people looking for answers not to be lazy....use your computer for more than clicking a Google result!

jeff

 

[Plati]

Maybe I'm missing something that you can fill me in on..


I’m trying to think about what you are eluding to, but without success..
Some metals can be used as sacrificial metals to protect others, but they deteriorate quickly by design to protect other metals from doing so..
But this doesn’t seem to be what you are referencing..

I'm really not aware of how rust protects Iron or Iron based metals (Steel in this case)..
Only how it removes material layer by layer until it is no more..

Kind of a weird coincidence but just driving home from a work site ... we noticed bridges rusting. One guy starts talking about how they now leave surfaces to rust (vs painting new) and it actually protects the metal. He did add thought they they come back after a few years and put epoxy paint on them. Somehow the combination of the rusted surface and the epoxy paint is the most durable "coating" for the base metal, was the storyline.

Whether its all true or if thats what Jeff was referring to is up for debate, but it was still an interesting coincidence.

I used to work in a metal finishing shop and one finish I did was called black oxide. Gun barrel blue'ing is a version of that. Its basically a controlled rust that forms a "coating" that protects the base metal. That also requires oiling maintenance though, right?

 

[Plati]

Have you seen my thread on this Forum titled "WNY Rust"? I've been studying and comparing rust (present and future) on my 2003 & 2014 Expys this year. The goal is to avoid <on my 2014> what happened <on my 2003>.

I've taken some preemptive steps on the 2014 based on what I see on the 2003. Examples are 1)flushing rocker panels 2)Krown undercoating (oil'ish) 3)cleaning. I've also spent a LOT of time under both examining and thinking about whats going on down there. I also am somewhat dismayed about some design issues and the lack of a durable "coating" down there. I wish the bottom was painted as well as the upper exterior (pipe dream). I've also observed , for example , the muffler on the 2014 has more surface rust than the muffler on the 2003 ... which means they used cheaper alloys.

Heres a picture of my 2003 rocker just ahead of a rear wheel. Its gone as is a lot of the rest of it. See the hole at bottom right. thats where salt brine enters the rocker panel cavity and SITS. $hitty design IMHO. No real surprise that rots away. I'm flushing that and applying my own oil based surface protectant on the 2014 to fight back on the inevitability.


I can say with confidence that the rust that forms on the inside rocker panel cavity does not help keep the entire sheet metal rocker panel from rusting to oblivion.

 

[LRNAD90]

Like I said, do the research....but you are very, very wrong in your suppositions. I have a section of iron pipe that was installed over 120 years ago in a very famous DC building. It remained in use for the entire 120+ years that it was installed. It's still a viable piece of pipe but how could that be based on what you said??

Iron oxide forms a protective coating which in turn prevents/slows way down, further oxidation.

I expect people looking for answers not to be lazy....use your computer for more than clicking a Google result!

jeff

Oh, you are clearly too smart for me..

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

Kind of a weird coincidence but just driving home from a work site ... we noticed bridges rusting. One guy starts talking about how they now leave surfaces to rust (vs painting new) and it actually protects the metal. He did add thought they they come back after a few years and put epoxy paint on them. Somehow the combination of the rusted surface and the epoxy paint is the most durable "coating" for the base metal, was the storyline.

Whether its all true or if thats what Jeff was referring to is up for debate, but it was still an interesting coincidence.

I used to work in a metal finishing shop and one finish I did was called black oxide. Gun barrel blue'ing is a version of that. Its basically a controlled rust that forms a "coating" that protects the base metal. That also requires oiling maintenance though, right?

The New River bridge in West Virginia is made from COR-TEN steel, which appears that it is rusting.

Some information: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weathering_steel

 

[Adieu]

Ford paintwork sucks, maybe its a blessing they didnt try to paint it

I thought it was just barebones SSV paintjob issues with my '09 park ranger truck.... but my '12 Lincoln Navigator L has the same orange peel texture BS.

Dont have any aluminium bubbling issues on either truck though, maybe it's a California climate thing?


You COULD just spray the bottom with bedliner if you so wanted

 

[Adieu]

PS on the bright side, an Expedition will be MUCH more reliable than an X5

 

[jeff kushner]

Evidently, someone's skin is a bit thin.....

Lol

Jeff

 

[Mr Shank]

I've owned... a few... BMWs over the years. One of the things that BMW does to minimize rust is plastic sheeting on the underside. My '08 535xit, '03 540iT, and '03 M5 all had this. Before we bought our second Expedition ('07 EL Limited) we looked at a few X5 5.0's, and they had this as well.

Ford does not, that I've seen. That said, we put nearly 100K miles on the '09 Limited that we had, and the only reason we don't have it is because someone driving a crown vic ran a red light and t-boned it.

It's going to be different than the X5 that you're used to, but as much as I loved my 535, I don't know that I'll get another one.

 

[JExpedition07]

Let’s put this this way, the BMW is a car, the expy is an SUV.

 

[Flexpedition]

All the plastic and wax (???) coated paperboard found under my E60, which is identical to the stuff under under my Fusion bumper to bumper - Noise/Vibration/Harshness control with a little improved aerodynamics and maybe increased MPG thrown in.

 

[Mr Shank]

Let’s put this this way, the BMW is a car, the expy is an SUV.

I wouldn't consider an X5 to be a car...