Gear Mesh Noise - 2014 Expedition Limited

[ssmock]

So here is the latest on the gear meshing noise on my 2014 expedition limited with 29,000 miles on start up.

I have found the noise is coming from the air conditioner compressor. After vehicle sits overnight it will make the noise a few seconds after startup with the climate control set to Auto. Turning off the climate control the next day upon start up there was no noise until I turned on the AC. I have done this a number of times now, even recording the sound with my phone. Left the vehicle with the dealer for 5 days (due to an out of town trip) so the dealer could replicate the problem. Dealer said this was a known problem and verified by contacting the Ford Engineering Hotline. Fix was to check by Pressurize, check for leaks, discharge system, evacuate and recharge charge system leaving out 1 ounce of oil from the AC System. Said oil pooling overnight causes an abrupt hit to the system. Should fix the problem. The service manager was involved and said he expected a service bulletin to be coming out on this problem.

Of course it didn't as I had the same problem the next day so I again tested with the AC on and then off the next couple of days so I took the car back. Played the recording for them. The repair order states "GEAR MESHING NOISE ON COLD STARTS STILL THERE AFTER PERFORMING OIL REDUCING PROCEDURE PROVIDED BY FORD ENGINEERING HOTLINE. DIAG AND ADVISE. left the vehicle overnight so they could also hear from themselves.

The outcome Story: 29281 "NOISE HAS BEEN DETERMINED TO BE A NORMAL CHARACTERISTIC OF OPERATION. WE CANNOT MAKE A CORRECTION TO THIS AS IT IS INHERENT TO DESIGN. THIS IS NOT HARMFUL TO EITHER THE A/C COMPRESSOR OR ENGINE AND WE WILL STAND BEHIND THIS AS A NORMAL CONDITION."

I'm not buying this but what more can I do? Has anyone had a similar experience? Glad this is the AC and not the transmission as some have stated but still!! A $50K plus car that makes a noise when you first start it after sitting overnight? Anyone else having a noise problem and thinking its the transmission should check out starting with the AC off then on the next day. I usually leave my climate control on Auto all the time so thats why I didn't notice before.

 

[MDSavage]

Hello there... original poster on this problem here. Sorry I haven't been around. Been on business travel a bunch since January. Haven't been able to take the vehicle back for additional repair attempts as we didn't buy the ESP so the dealer doesn't provide a rental car while they try to fix the problem. (usually stays over a week so they can listen for the noise during a cold overnight start)

The noise sure sounds like it's from the transmission area. Even the dealer I purchase the vehicle from felt that, along with the Ford Hotline. They attempted repairs 4 times to-date and even pulled the trans twice to replace the pump, valve body, and torque converter. Hearing that the noise may be from the AC is very interesting.

When back in town next week I will try the Auto button off suggestion. We do leave the auto temp on just like mentioned above. If the fix is this simple... we may keep the vehicle!

The Hotline told the dealer last to find a similar vehicle on the lot to determine if the noise is found in a similar vehicle. It's been two weeks now since they began to search for one. Haven't got as return call yet. I'm not in a rush to take it back as I'm away from town again and won't be able to take it back until next week.

When I do get back I am planning to peruse the repair through the MD lemon law process. The vehicle is under 16,500 miles and was purchased under 24 months ago. This meets the criteria for the lemon law in Maryland and maybe someone higher up in FORD will get on the ball and effect the repair... as they have to accomplish this in 30 days from getting our Certified Letter or FORD must buy it back or replace it!.

We really like the vehicle, but a $52k vehicle shouldn't make this grinding noise ever time it sits over night and is started up.

Also, along the way on this tread a person from FORD, Megan I believe, said she could help with the issue. Never did hear anymore so I suppose she isn't watching the posts on here.

Will post more as the story unfolds. I'm sure there is more to come...

 

[ssmock]

There are some other threads on this site dealing with the AC on these vehicles. From reading them it seems Ford has the compressor low on the engine. Oil drains and collects overnight since the compressor is the lowest point in the system. I guess Ford has known about this problem but since they changed to the eco boost v6 in 2015 didn't change anything. Still I am sure all systems don't do this. My procedure for testing this is I turn the ignition on (don't start it) make sure the radio is off, AC is off, running boards retracted and drivers window down. Start the vehicle let it run for a few seconds then turn on the AC, you should then hear the noise. Next morning same procedure only with AC on and you should immediately hear the noise. At least that's how my 2014 acts. Good luck!

 

[MDSavage]

SSMOCK, I tried your process and it did in fact act the way you say. Now I'm wondering if the noise is a problem or one that should be corrected. Have you approached the dealer for corrective action?

Amazing that my dealer performed all the work and the Hotline approved it and didn't know what was the issue was.

 

[ssmock]

SSMOCK, I tried your process and it did in fact act the way you say. Now I'm wondering if the noise is a problem or one that should be corrected. Have you approached the dealer for corrective action?

Amazing that my dealer performed all the work and the Hotline approved it and didn't know what was the issue was.

Yes, in my post above the dealer basically told me this was a known condition with no way to fix it due to the oil in the compressor settling overnight and when the AC clutch engages it makes the noise. He states that this in no way is harmful to the AC or the engine. Maybe some others can chime in here as there has got to be more experiencing this condition.

 

[MDSavage]

SSMock, thanks for the information. Will get with my dealer this week to see what they say now.

 

[ManUpOrShutUp]

So here is the latest on the gear meshing noise on my 2014 expedition limited with 29,000 miles on start up.

I have found the noise is coming from the air conditioner compressor. After vehicle sits overnight it will make the noise a few seconds after startup with the climate control set to Auto. Turning off the climate control the next day upon start up there was no noise until I turned on the AC. I have done this a number of times now, even recording the sound with my phone. Left the vehicle with the dealer for 5 days (due to an out of town trip) so the dealer could replicate the problem. Dealer said this was a known problem and verified by contacting the Ford Engineering Hotline. Fix was to check by Pressurize, check for leaks, discharge system, evacuate and recharge charge system leaving out 1 ounce of oil from the AC System. Said oil pooling overnight causes an abrupt hit to the system. Should fix the problem. The service manager was involved and said he expected a service bulletin to be coming out on this problem.

Of course it didn't as I had the same problem the next day so I again tested with the AC on and then off the next couple of days so I took the car back. Played the recording for them. The repair order states "GEAR MESHING NOISE ON COLD STARTS STILL THERE AFTER PERFORMING OIL REDUCING PROCEDURE PROVIDED BY FORD ENGINEERING HOTLINE. DIAG AND ADVISE. left the vehicle overnight so they could also hear from themselves.

The outcome Story: 29281 "NOISE HAS BEEN DETERMINED TO BE A NORMAL CHARACTERISTIC OF OPERATION. WE CANNOT MAKE A CORRECTION TO THIS AS IT IS INHERENT TO DESIGN. THIS IS NOT HARMFUL TO EITHER THE A/C COMPRESSOR OR ENGINE AND WE WILL STAND BEHIND THIS AS A NORMAL CONDITION."

I'm not buying this but what more can I do? Has anyone had a similar experience? Glad this is the AC and not the transmission as some have stated but still!! A $50K plus car that makes a noise when you first start it after sitting overnight? Anyone else having a noise problem and thinking its the transmission should check out starting with the AC off then on the next day. I usually leave my climate control on Auto all the time so thats why I didn't notice before.

Based on what you are describing, it sounds like you have the same noise as I do. My dealer was not even able to hear the noise despite me replicating it for the Service Manager numerous times. He just kept saying: "I didn't hear it. Can you start it again?" Well, no, because it only occurs on a cold start.

Anyway, since the dealer was useless I started hunting through the service manual. I came across this:

Compressor Anti-Slugging Strategy (CASS)
Liquid refrigerant may accumulate in the A/C compressor under certain circumstances. To alleviate damage to the A/C compressor, CASS is utilized.

CASS is initiated only under specific conditions:
- Ignition is off for more than 8 hours
- Ambient temperature is above -4C (25F)
- Battery voltage is above 8.5 volts during engine cranking

When these conditions are present, the PCM will activate the A/C control relay prior to cranking of the engine. The A/C control relay engages the A/C compressor for approximately 4-15 A/C compressor revolutions or a maximum of 2 seconds (depending upon vehicle application), allowing the liquid refrigerant to be pushed from the A/C compressor. CASS is initiated by the PCM regardless of the HVAC system settings.

Perhaps?

 

[ssmock]

Still doesn't explain why the vehicle wont make the noise when AC control is in the off position (Auto off in my case on the Limited) then you hear the noise when you turn on the AC. Seems like a $50K plus retail vehicle shouldn't do this. Especially with only 29K miles on it.

 

[ManUpOrShutUp]

Still doesn't explain why the vehicle wont make the noise when AC control is in the off position (Auto off in my case on the Limited) then you hear the noise when you turn on the AC. Seems like a $50K plus retail vehicle shouldn't do this. Especially with only 29K miles on it.

Try this. Wait until the vehicle is fully warmed up before turning on the HVAC system. If you have a gauge hooked up to the OBD II port you can see the actual temps; otherwise you'll just have to guess by the dash temp gauge. If it still makes the noise when starting the AC with the engine warm, it's not normal. If it only makes the noise when the engine is cold, then it's almost certainly the CASS and is normal.

 

[ssmock]

Try this. Wait until the vehicle is fully warmed up before turning on the HVAC system. If you have a gauge hooked up to the OBD II port you can see the actual temps; otherwise you'll just have to guess by the dash temp gauge. If it still makes the noise when starting the AC with the engine warm, it's not normal. If it only makes the noise when the engine is cold, then it's almost certainly the CASS and is normal.

Thanks, I will try that and reply with the results.