gryphon vs edge update, according to php

[2000eb]

just got off the phone with power hungry performance. i called to dee about turning my edge cs into a gryphon and he said it already is. he said they just use factory edge cs programmers and can add tunes to any of them for performance etc. i asked him about some tunes and he asked what i was looking, i said fuel economy and he told me i dont need anything. he said that they mainly do tunes to fix tube with filter problems (CAI) etc or the addition of a supercharger. he HATES cold air intakes he has said all the tuning he has done those stupid tube on filters have less power and cause tuning issues. he said they pull HOT air not cold which does affect the tuning performance and mpgs negatively. he said the only problem with our intakes is the stupid cone that the GOTTS mod takes care of.

So for everyone with a CAI hahaha. i hope you like the look of it. power hungry performance is a highly respected engine tuning company and they have seen alot of negative results with a CAI on our FORD TRUCKS both 2v and 3v motor. just food for thought. so keep your gotts mod everyone

 

[2000eb]

bump

 

[Maddog7771]

Im glad I decide to do the $12 mod lol. All I need now is a good filter. I figured Gotts mod was worth a try. I mean it only cost you about $12 at Home Depot and about a hour of your time.

 

[panda24619]

yup. cost me about $15 and an hour or so. i just need to clean my k&n more often now.

 

[ZombieSoldier]

Personally I disagree. From a tuning aspect I can understand that since they tune stationary on a dyno. But using methods such as EFI live or HP Tuning, you can see the results of real tuning for how the vehicle will actually perform. Simply, while driving, your vehicle is pushing through the air causing a vaccuum effect into the engine compartment as the air goes over and under the vehicle, causing the cool air to go towards the intake filter. On a dyno the heat shield is worth it, otherwise, no. My buddy who makes custom cam shaft profiles, ports and polishes, builds, and tunes many 1000 HP corvettes and I have had this conversation many times. He uses HP tunes and gets insane numbers using it. Also by using your factory plastic "accordion" tubing it causes turbulence.

 

[walnuts4x4]

well look at it this way... on my edge I watch the IAT (Intake Air Temp) and while driving it is dead on with outside temp display on my expy..... while idling yes temp goes up... but who needs performance idling? Not me I like performance while driving... so the fact that CAI suck hot air is FULL OF SH%T!!!.... Today drove expy was 22 degrees on my expy thermometer and my house thermometer.... and guess what IAT was........... 22 Degrees.... so unless I am missing something where is this hot air at???

 

[ZombieSoldier]

well look at it this way... on my edge I watch the IAT (Intake Air Temp) and while driving it is dead on with outside temp display on my expy..... while idling yes temp goes up... but who needs performance idling? Not me I like performance while driving... so the fact that CAI suck hot air is FULL OF SH%T!!!.... Today drove expy was 22 degrees on my expy thermometer and my house thermometer.... and guess what IAT was........... 22 Degrees.... so unless I am missing something where is this hot air at???

My point exactly! Even with turbo diesels we have the same results. I am surprised PHP doesn't understand this since they tune in the diesel community as well. Just so y'all understand this.... All these programmers use canned tunes from dyno tuning and computer mapping, not actual driving. That is why EFI live type tuning gets such incredible numbers because it records all perameters while you drive which allows you to change all the fuel, spark and timing maps for certain throttle positions and RPM's. I told y'all I was looking for a good thread to discuss in a mature fashion what goes through my mind and the extensive knowledge I have when it comes to motors.

Btw, the person tuning over there must not really know what he is doing, as we have picked up 5rwhp on a corvette from a non cai tune to cai tune. On a 7.3 Powerstroke we gained almost 6.8rwhp over non cai tunes. A lot of it has to come from the air being not turbulent and the volume of air being introduced into the combustion chamber. Once you alter those numbers with the mapping you can introduce more fuel and spark timing.

 

[2000eb]

pickin up 6.8 rwhp on a powerstroke? you can throw some cetane booster in and do that. 5 hp or 6.8 hp your not going to notice.

most newer vehicles (only because all the plastic **** is still there) only let air enter via the radiator shroud. they cover the bottom of the motor up with plastic to help aerodynamics.

And as for CAI on diesels your stock airbox is more then sufficient unless you upgrade your turbo. my old Seargent had a 2004 dodge tuned by Beans Diesel Performance he is pushing 510 hp and 1025 ft/lbs of tq. with? a smarty programmer K&N drop in and stacks. truck motor sill stock turbo stock lift pump stock. Beans even says the stock airbox is more then adequate.

And i thought everyone LOVED PHP i highly respect there honesty. everyone wanted to switch to the gryphon because of their awesome tunes.

 

[ZombieSoldier]

See you aren't getting the point at all. The gain was with cai with non cai tunes going to cai tune. As far as stock being adequate, on the 7.3 Powerstrokes the factory air boxes do not seal correctly allowing dirt to go up the tubing and dusting the turbos, also on a boosted motor turbulence is not an issue but on a N/A gas motor turbulence is no bueno. So take foot out of mouth. As far as the air comment, trust me at 40mph air gets in through all small gaps. This isn't available with it bring stationary on a dyno. Does those plastic air shrouds work? Yes. Does it stop all air from coming in. Absolutely not. Also the air does push through the grill through the radiator and into the engine bay, allowing sir to get to the filter. Remember a 100% sealed up engine bay on a car can and will result in ultra high under hood temperatures, and possible overheating due to the very very small confines.

 

[rburch]

I dissagree with 2000eb! And i totally agree with Walnuts and Zombie! He obviously knows what he is talkin about!

So whats next? After market exhausts are stupid and dont work because they are too loud?

I hate to say, but what you and PHP are saying is preposterous! It makes no common sense!

I hate that this thread has turned into a bashing thread, but you started the the thread that way!

 

[ZombieSoldier]

Btw that combo on a commonrail is only 400rwhp to 415rwhp not 500. He needs a bit more things than that to get to 500. Such as a lift pump, FASS system complete turbo back, and possibly injectors. Then to top it off of it is an automatic it won't hold that power, and if it is stick he will need an upgraded clutch.

 

[ZombieSoldier]

I dissagree with 2000eb! And i totally agree with Walnuts and Zombie! He obviously knows what he is talkin about!

So whats next? After market exhausts are stupid and dont work because they are too loud?

I hate to say, but what you and PHP are saying is preposterous! It makes no common sense!

I hate that this thread has turned into a bashing thread, but you started the the thread that way!

Most modern cars, th exhausts are stainless steel and flow very well. You can get an exhaust for them but most times you aren't gaining much if anything unless you are doing headers back. Even then you are usually gaining only about 20hp from an headers back exhaust. For example, my buddy jays 1000rwhp vette, and before somone calls ******** on this car, 2006 C6 vette with 423 stroked motor, with ported TFS heads, Fast intake, his custom specs grind cam, supercharger pushing 23 psi, meth injection, and nitrous, with 1 7/8 headers running through dual 3" factory Z06 titanium exhaust made 3rwhp less than running through his cutouts.

 

[rburch]

Yeah i call BS on that also! Your not going to gain 200hp with a tune! The HO version was only 325hp!

 

[ZombieSoldier]

for us car **** fanatics here is the said corvette.. street sleeper hha, only outside indiction is the mickeys on the back (if you look closely the back rims are actually front rims that were widened over3" because Mickey Thompson didn't make a drag radial that would fit the factory rears, and he was trying to retain a stock look on it)!

 

[rburch]

 

[ZombieSoldier]

very drool worthy!! too bad the car is now disassembled to go back to stock. :'( It is being sold to fund his next project a new Gallardo that he wants to put some twins on..

 

[Dib52]

Hate to jump into the pi%^ing contest, just want to add, I've been running K&N CAI's for the past 15 years on 6 different vehicles and all I can report is positive gains in each application. Bottom line, to each their own, I'll keep using mine and it will be one of the first upgrades if/when I buy another vehicle.

 

[rburch]

Thats how you know when a turbo car is one you dont wanna mess with! Because when he says that hes meth injecting and your not, you should just go sit back in your car!

 

[ZombieSoldier]

^^^^ absolutely!

 

[2000eb]

on the ford trucks the gotts mod is more then adequate this is more for people on the wall of which they wanna do cai or gotts mod. i thought this would be funny to post since people on here so badly want to get a gryphon and gryphon tunes there is more then one thread talking about ditching stock edge tunes etc and using gryphon. the gryphon has made a HUGE name for itself over on f150 forum and with fords in general.

as for that setup on a common rail that was his readings and he did add a tripple disc clutch (after that dyno) setup it was tuned with a mads smarty programmer by beans. he has actually added a few other mods like a lift pump but he didnt add clutch and lift pump till after we came back from deployment and he did his dyno tuning before our deploment. so ya you may only get 400 hp doing those mods in your driveway with a programmer on its canned tunes. he will only let beans touch his truck tuning wise because of their ridiculous amount of knowledge on the 5.9l cummins. he told them he was wanting to make 500hp and they did...and on a budget