Letter to My Dealer

[D__J]

Good luck.

I dumped my Ford Expedition and bought a new Tahoe Premier 4WD. Very nice vehicle.

You’ll like a Suburban.

Thank you! I am planning on looking at the 2026 Z71 with the Duramax diesel.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

When I asked about Tahoe's as an alternative to my 2019 Expedition, i was warned by my indie shop owner that new Chevy/GMC trucks are nearly as problematic as Fords, with both engine and transmission problems, and really long lead times on repair parts.. And this owner drives a brand new Suburban

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

When I asked about Tahoe's as an alternative to my 2019 Expedition, i was warned by my indie shop owner that new Chevy/GMC trucks are nearly as problematic as Fords, with both engine and transmission problems, and really long lead times on repair parts.. And this owner drives a brand new Suburban

While my Expedition was parked at my Ford dealer out-of-service, I waited three months (after diagnosis) for transmission repair parts at my Ford dealer, then waited three months (after diagnosis) for a steering rack at my Ford dealer. I also waited one year for a safety recall HVAC blower motor from my Ford dealer.

I can’t imagine a longer lead time on repair parts than I encountered at Ford (with a Ford dealer who had no concern for the delays).

 

[LanceExp2025]

There must be 2,575 hours of UAW labor in that truck. Anyone spending $85K on a truck must be very wealthy or very dumb, if not. Actually $33 hr today, adjusted for inflation, is really not a lot of money for that kind of job. I made about $8 an hour way back in 1976 and was a new hire in electronics. The company I worked for was afraid of IBEW. Rumor was that company thugs roughed up a union organizer out in the parking lot.

I surely doubt that there is anywhere close to 2575 UAW labor hours in any vehicle, much less an Expy. I actually have no idea on the man hours/vehicle but, at that huge amount of man hours, Ford would loose 10's of thousands $ on every one. If the UAW wages are $33/hr., that does NOT include Workers Comp, medical insurance, sick pay, vacation pay and many other employer costs. Yes, I think ALL Expy's are 'over-priced' but with such terrible quality control on Ford's Expy builds, they had to pad the prices heavily to keep them running close to correctly, it seems to me.

There was one guy on this Forum that had bought a new Expy and the passenger side, outside RH side-view mirror wouldn't deploy every time. After 7 months of constantly going back, I guess the dealer gave up on trying to make it work so they said Ford would buy the Expy back under the Lemon Law. That owner loved his Expy and just wanted the mirror fixed properly. What kind of rational (or irrational) reasoning/thinking is that? I'm thinking Ford could find some knowledgeable specialist to put a whole new RH mirror assembly on with a complete new wire harness (all the way back to the computer) and make it work at less cost than buying the Expy back! No wonder Ford is struggling to make money (if that is actually true?).

As an example of Good PAST Ford warranty work in making things right: My dad bought my mom a brand-new Ford, 1962 T-Bird in Christmas of 1961. It ran perfectly and drove nicely but, when turning left, the wheel wouldn't return to straight without cranking it by hand-over-hand back, to straighten the car out. It was dangerous! My dad took it back to the dealer 5 times in 9 months and they said they just couldn't fix it. My dad then contacted the CA, West Coast District Ford Manager and explained the problem and LACK of dealer solution/repair. That District Manager made an appointment with my dad, at the selling dealership, to take a short drive, with my dad as a passenger. At the very FIRST LH turn, that District Manager almost drove into on-coming traffic because the steering would not re-center. He drove back to the selling dealership, put my dad into a brand new 1963 Fairlane 2 drht V8 Sports Coupe and said he would replace the entire front suspension, if necessary, on my moms 1962 T-Bird.

Three (3) weeks later, my dad was called to return the 1963 Fairlane loaner car and pick up the 1962 T-Bird. At pick-up, the T-Bird was washed and waxed, there was a short letter of apology, on the console, and a coupon for a Free Oil Change, at that dealership. It drove perfectly and my parents kept it until 1994. My parents were very pleased and happy to continue on as loyal Ford owners/buyers. That seems pretty easily done and honorable by Ford. Why NOT now? Lance

 

[GlennSullivan]

I surely doubt that there is anywhere close to 2575 UAW labor hours in any vehicle, much less an Expy. I actually have no idea on the man hours/vehicle but, at that huge amount of man hours, Ford would loose 10's of thousands $ on every one. If the UAW wages are $33/hr., that does NOT include Workers Comp, medical insurance, sick pay, vacation pay and many other employer costs. Yes, I think ALL Expy's are 'over-priced' but with such terrible quality control on Ford's Expy builds, they had to pad the prices heavily to keep them running close to correctly, it seems to me.

There was one guy on this Forum that had bought a new Expy and the passenger side, outside RH side-view mirror wouldn't deploy every time. After 7 months of constantly going back, I guess the dealer gave up on trying to make it work so they said Ford would buy the Expy back under the Lemon Law. That owner loved his Expy and just wanted the mirror fixed properly. What kind of rational (or irrational) reasoning/thinking is that? I'm thinking Ford could find some knowledgeable specialist to put a whole new RH mirror assembly on with a complete new wire harness (all the way back to the computer) and make it work at less cost than buying the Expy back! No wonder Ford is struggling to make money (if that is actually true?).

As an example of Good PAST Ford warranty work in making things right: My dad bought my mom a brand-new Ford, 1962 T-Bird in Christmas of 1961. It ran perfectly and drove nicely but, when turning left, the wheel wouldn't return to straight without cranking it by hand-over-hand back, to straighten the car out. It was dangerous! My dad took it back to the dealer 5 times in 9 months and they said they just couldn't fix it. My dad then contacted the CA, West Coast District Ford Manager and explained the problem and LACK of dealer solution/repair. That District Manager made an appointment with my dad, at the selling dealership, to take a short drive, with my dad as a passenger. At the very FIRST LH turn, that District Manager almost drove into on-coming traffic because the steering would not re-center. He drove back to the selling dealership, put my dad into a brand new 1963 Fairlane 2 drht V8 Sports Coupe and said he would replace the entire front suspension, if necessary, on my moms 1962 T-Bird.

Three (3) weeks later, my dad was called to return the 1963 Fairlane loaner car and pick up the 1962 T-Bird. At pick-up, the T-Bird was washed and waxed, there was a short letter of apology, on the console, and a coupon for a Free Oil Change, at that dealership. It drove perfectly and my parents kept it until 1994. My parents were very pleased and happy to continue on as loyal Ford owners/buyers. That seems pretty easily done and honorable by Ford. Why NOT now? Lance

The problem is district managers sit in their office and rear and respond to corporate emails today, instead of being out with the people they are theoretically paid to support and assist.

 

[LanceExp2025]

The problem is district managers sit in their office and rear and respond to corporate emails today, instead of being out with the people they are theoretically paid to support and assist.

I guess that may be true these days. Don't know but, my dads experience was 60 years ago when honor and honesty were much more prevalent back then, it seems. I would guess I am just wishing for something that is no longer done nor practiced. Lance

 

[Fastcar]

I'm of the belief that there is very little pride in workmanship at the dealership level. Kids today seem to think that they are entitled to top dollar wages as soon as they walk in the door. There is no longer any apprentice programs other than in union trades. You have people hiring prospective employees with no idea what the heck they are doing.

 

[JamaicaJoe]

There was one guy on this Forum that had bought a new Expy and the passenger side, outside RH side-view mirror wouldn't deploy every time. After 7 months of constantly going back, I guess the dealer gave up on trying to make it work so they said Ford would buy the Expy back under the Lemon Law. That owner loved his Expy and just wanted the mirror fixed properly. What kind of rational (or irrational) reasoning/thinking is that? I'm thinking Ford could find some knowledgeable specialist to put a whole new RH mirror assembly on with a complete new wire harness (all the way back to the computer) and make it work at less cost than buying the Expy back! No wonder Ford is struggling to make money (if that is actually true?).

I am really not surprised they could not fix something as simple as a power mirror. These new cars rely on CANBUS for everything. The wiring and the signals are dispersed all over a car. A short or miswiring in an unrelated circuit can interfere with the data flow. It is like finding a bad bulb in a Christmas light string. I have the 300 page manual for the electronics of my 2013 XLT and even in that basic model, the wiring is daunting. They (Ford) need to go back to basics and eliminate the computer complexity. On some trucks the LED tail lamps are $5000 and chock full of programmable electronics. WHY???

 

[JamaicaJoe]

I'm of the belief that there is very little pride in workmanship at the dealership level. Kids today seem to think that they are entitled to top dollar wages as soon as they walk in the door. There is no longer any apprentice programs other than in union trades. You have people hiring prospective employees with no idea what the heck they are doing.

I don't think they could possibly get enough training to troubleshoot the new cars.

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

I am really not surprised they could not fix something as simple as a power mirror. These new cars rely on CANBUS for everything. The wiring and the signals are dispersed all over a car. A short or miswiring in an unrelated circuit can interfere with the data flow. It is like finding a bad bulb in a Christmas light string. I have the 300 page manual for the electronics of my 2013 XLT and even in that basic model, the wiring is daunting. They (Ford) need to go back to basics and eliminate the computer complexity. On some trucks the LED tail lamps are $5000 and chock full of programmable electronics. WHY???

What trucks have $5,000 tail lamps?

 

[Fastcar]

A Expy 2021 cost over 1K.

 

[Herby]

Love the look of the new Ford Expedition but I keep reading articles regarding Ford's quality issues. I have taken myself out of the new vehicle market and will continue to keep my 2007 Ford Expedition running. I'd rather use my hard-earned cash for other things, such as travel and home improvement projects, vs throwing away money and precious time on a $70k to $80k product. Makes little financial sense to me.

 

[JamaicaJoe]

What trucks have $5,000 tail lamps?

Repair Cost Are Out of Control: $5,600 Bill for Some Tail Lamps?!

In this video we show you one example of how repair cost are out of control on modern vehicles nowadays. It is definitely something to consider when purchasi...

www.youtube.com

 

[Left Coast Geek]

to be fair, the tail lights on that truck were $1200-1400 each same as our Expedition 4g. both tail lights, plus the radar modules, and the wiring harness repairs pushed that up into the $5600 range.

I've had to replace a tail light twice now on my Expedition, due to trailer crunching issues. First time was $1400, 2nd time was $1000. The "Stealth" package tail lights are a bit more expensive than the normal 4g tail lights.

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

Repair Cost Are Out of Control: $5,600 Bill for Some Tail Lamps?!

In this video we show you one example of how repair cost are out of control on modern vehicles nowadays. It is definitely something to consider when purchasi...

www.youtube.com

I usually don't watch videos online - but I did watch this one. Thanks for posting. I have watched other videos by this Ford mechanic (very helpful and informative).

The taillamps in question on the featured Ford F-150 were $1,200 - $1,400 each (not sure why the mechanic didn't have a specific price).

The computer modules and brackets that are separate and are housed inside the taillamps for the vehicle side detection feature added additional cost.

So - the taillamps are not $5,000. Taillamps, computer modules, brackets, diagnostic time and labor are over $5,000.

 

[Roland A]

Thank you; 2023 so far has been holding up well. I'm at ~ 35K miles, no issues, which has been the case for my others. Things hit the fan after 60K. I have 2 major trips planned for the remainder of the year which will put me past 50K miles on her.

I think next year I will have to make a decision on what to buy next. Love the size of the Max; unfortunately Toyota has nothing close. The Suburban is something to consider. Not sure what else to look at.

I don’t think Toyota or a GM product is the answer according to the news lately. I have had 3 Expeditions also (2007, 2014 and 2020). The 2020 is in the ship right now getting a new transmission under warranty. Estimate is at least 6 weeks because of part availability. I don’t know what the answer is , I will be trading the Expy when I get it back. Maybe an Infiniti QX 80???

 

[GlennSullivan]

Well GM certainly has their issues with both engines and transmissions, so I would not consider either Chevy or GMC.

 

[Fastcar]

I usually don't watch videos online - but I did watch this one. Thanks for posting. I have watched other videos by this Ford mechanic (very helpful and informative).

The taillamps in question on the featured Ford F-150 were $1,200 - $1,400 each (not sure why the mechanic didn't have a specific price).

The computer modules and brackets that are separate and are housed inside the taillamps for the vehicle side detection feature added additional cost.

So - the taillamps are not $5,000. Taillamps, computer modules, brackets, diagnostic time and labor are over

Well GM certainly has their issues with both engines and transmissions, so I would not consider either Chevy or GMC.

I thought GM and Ford were working together on transmissions.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

Indeed, Ford designed the 10Rxx and Chevy/GM uses it in various vehicles, but with their own management software.

 

[Expedition Racer]

Heres my take as a life long ‘59y’ Ford fan.
Currently have a 64 F350, 66 F250, 74 F250 Highboy, 74 C1000, 2005 Excursion, 2013 F350 4x4, 18 F150 4x4 ecobust, 21 Ram 3500 6.7, and last and least 23 XLT Max high trim level.
Bought 2 Rams in 21 the 3500 diesel and a 1500 Rebel because we couldn’t get Fords.
We farm and ranch so stuff gets used and abused but maintained well.
Traded the 21 5.7 Rebel for the Expedition.
The Rebel rode better and was quieter on the road than the 23 Expedition does. Im going to drive the expedition till the 100K 5 Year runs out as the trade in dropped like a rock 18 months ago.
Got more for the Rebel than I could for the expedition at the same age and approximate mileage. Paid 18k more for the Expedition.
It’s straight up a piece of crap. Cheaply constructed like a Korean automobile. Rattles all over warped trim. Noisy HVAC, glitchy electronics, bizarre control interface making simple things complicated.

The best upgrades I have done to the Expedition have been 275/60r20 H rated Michelin Defender’s and an MPT 91 octane daily driver tune. The tune cured the dead pedal, the low speed sluggishness, the odd shifting and its quick. Passing is fun. The car is now bearable to drive.

Ford sucks. My local dealer Rhiebien Ford is awesome. Very customer focused and honest. Thats good because i get to see them often.

Im contemplating having the Excursion Limited taken down to the frame and restored with a Godzilla-6r140 with newer super duty coil spring conversion with the bigger brakes, new front seats and carpet, headliner, stereo, etc etc maybe some 18 or 20” factory rims
Probably spend 50 to 60k to make it as new.
Theres nothing new that interest me. Maybe a diesel suburban but GMs quality sucks almost as bad as Fords
Cant deal with Stalantis and its dealers.
Right now the Excursion is the most appealing option.