Help- Will my Expy tow this?

[Joshua Robison]

Thank you in advance, I have read and read over the past few days and still not sure I understand all the factors and nuances. That said I thought it might be time to just ask.

So here are the two questions 1) Can I tow the trailer below as is, or are there modifications (WDH etc.) I can make to pull it safely? 2) If not this trailer anyone have a alternative with similar layout/sleeping?

Assume family of 5 2 adults (150lb) and 3 kids (100lb)

TV- 2019 Expy Limited Max, best I can tell not with the HD tow package, only has the 7pin and class 4 hitch, no trailer brakes or back up assist. Assuming the 3.31 differential.

Possible TT- See below.

 

[LovinPSDs]

We own this exact trailer and will be towing with an Expedition in the future. I've done a TON of research on this exact setup so here are a handful of things you may find useful.

1. I wouldn't do it without the tow package, but could be done. The tow package makes the overall trailer weight well within the allowable limits.

2. Don't be fooled by the listed tongue weight. Many people have reported the 2509 hitting nearly 1K in tongue weight. Especially if hauling water, the tank is at the very front of the trailer.
Based off this 1k Tongue weight you are likely going to have a payload issue or very close. Some of the newer Expeditions seem to be in the 1700lbs of payload. Remember all people + tongue weight + everything you carry shouldn't = more than the payload.

3. If tongue weight is an issue this can be adjusted. 900-1000lbs of tongue weight is HIGH for a 6500lb trailer so reducing it wouldn't hurt. I was going to mess with the propane tanks and make sure to rear load the trailer and I think you could easy pull 200lbs off the tongue.

4. Don't even think about pulling without a Weight Distribution Hitch (this counts towards payload too )

5. Go to an LT tire on the expedition

6. Add sumo springs to rear suspension

7. If you still go the current Expedition route, you can add the factory brake controller pretty easily.

8. Pull good tires on the travel trailer - a 2021 will likely have Goodyear Endurances. If it doesn't, get them.

9. If you think it's too heavy because you don't have the tow package, look at the Apex Nano 208BHS. A decent option but I do like the 2509S WAY more.

This is a good read... Seems the 3.31 rear end is the real hangup. Are you 100% sure it has 3.31s?

https://www.expeditionforum.com/thr...nstalled-aftermarket.44191/page-3#post-401952

one more for fun..

https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/changing-2018-from-3-31-to-3-73.42754/page-4#post-401933

 

[LovinPSDs]

P.S. - we love the 2509S, and it think it would be a perfect fit for the properly outfitted Expedition. If you had a tow package, allllll day.... Without, you could probably give it a go, but as the posts above have said, apparently the 3.31s are pretty lazy, especially with a trailer.

Personally - Tune, downpipes, intercooler, 180* T-stat and I'd send it without the tow package, but I didn't really want to say that out loud.

 

[Joshua Robison]

Thank you for the feedback this is exactly what I was hoping for. So to answer the biggest question imo no I am not sure that is has the 3.31 but I can’t find anything to confirm or dispute it this so as a bookend I am assuming it does. Sounds like my next step needs to be answer this question. We bought it used last year and I unfortunately just assumed it would pull something when the time came.

 

[shane_th_ee]

Thank you for the feedback this is exactly what I was hoping for. So to answer the biggest question imo no I am not sure that is has the 3.31 but I can’t find anything to confirm or dispute it this so as a bookend I am assuming it does. Sounds like my next step needs to be answer this question. We bought it used last year and I unfortunately just assumed it would pull something when the time came.

I'll bet a beer it's the 3.31. You can confirm by looking at the white sticker on the frame for the driver's door. At the bottom of the sticker is an axle code. "3L" is the 3.73, "15" is the 3.31. "10" is the rare 3.15 (requires a short wheel base and 2wd).

If you do have the dreaded 3.31, you'll want to limit your search to trailers a GVWR less than 6000lbs.

 

[Joshua Robison]

Yes “15” is on the sticker. Thanks for the help I will start the TT search over now knowing the limitation. Thanks for the help, I am sure I will have more questions to come.

 

[LovinPSDs]

Yes “15” is on the sticker. Thanks for the help I will start the TT search over now knowing the limitation. Thanks for the help, I am sure I will have more questions to come.

Apex Nano 208BHS
Lance 2185
Rockwood Geo Pro - 20BHS

If you can handle it, there are tons of Hybrid options
I LOVE the Forrest River Rockwood Roo 21SS - but it's getting up there in weight.

I'll see if I can remember a few others we were looking at.

 

[JasonH]

I'll bet a beer it's the 3.31. You can confirm by looking at the white sticker on the frame for the driver's door. At the bottom of the sticker is an axle code. "3L" is the 3.73, "15" is the 3.31. "10" is the rare 3.15 (requires a short wheel base and 2wd).

If you do have the dreaded 3.31, you'll want to limit your search to trailers a GVWR less than 6000lbs.

This isn't entirely correct. I have 3.31 gears on my 2017 EL 2wd. Pulls my 7k trailer just fine. Never any issues keeping up with traffic.

 

[shane_th_ee]

This isn't entirely correct. I have 3.31 gears on my 2017 EL 2wd. Pulls my 7k trailer just fine. Never any issues keeping up with traffic.

I don’t know about the 3rd gen, but the 4th gen towing guide gives a 6k limit for the 3.31.

 

[LovinPSDs]

This isn't entirely correct. I have 3.31 gears on my 2017 EL 2wd. Pulls my 7k trailer just fine. Never any issues keeping up with traffic.

I'm not going to lie.. I'd probably see if I could rent a 2509S and see how it pulled... It's a much better trailer than those small bunkhouses and buying another Expedition for the gears and radiator just doesn't seem worth it to me.

You would be right at the max trailer weight, but I'd bet you it would pull just fine.. again, I hate to admit this outloud, and it's not something I advocate going over sticker limits. In this case I think it's mostly temperature (trans and Coolant) related, which could be managed if it was an issue.

 

[JasonH]

I don’t know about the 3rd gen, but the 4th gen towing guide gives a 6k limit for the 3.31.

The 6.6k limit is for vehicles without a WDH. It's in the towing guide chart.

 

[shane_th_ee]

The 6.6k limit is for vehicles without a WDH. It's in the towing guide chart.

View attachment 37173

Thank you, I have learned something. Unfortunately, the OP has a 2019. Here’s the same chart for the 4th gen:

 

[JasonH]

Thank you, I have learned something. Unfortunately, the OP has a 2019. Here’s the same chart for the 4th gen:
View attachment 37176

I had this exact conversation with someone several months ago. Starting in 2018, HDT included 3.73 gears standard on both 4x4 and 4x2. But the 3.31 gears aren't really an impediment for towing.

 

[shane_th_ee]

I had this exact conversation with someone several months ago. Starting in 2018, HDT included 3.73 gears standard on both 4x4 and 4x2. But the 3.31 gears aren't really an impediment for towing.

I concur that the gearing isn't the limitation. But it does not follow that the OP should be considering a 7K trailer without the HDT. The only question is what mods would be required (if any) for the OP to be able to safely and reliably tow a 7k trailer?

 

[JasonH]

I concur that the gearing isn't the limitation. But it does not follow that the OP should be considering a 7K trailer without the HDT. The only question is what mods would be required (if any) for the OP to be able to safely and reliably tow a 7k trailer?

I agree, the HD Tow upgrades would be needed for a 7k trailer.

 

[Thomas Warden]

I have a 2019 XLT w/out the HD tow package and 3.31 gear. I tow a 5,000lb. Jayco and it does what I want it to. No problems after towing over 3,000 miles. But like you, a gauged my shopping for Travel Trailers 5,000 and under with a tongue weight of <600 lbs. I haven’t weighed mine yet, but I hopefully have less than 1,000 lbs. of good, water and equipment in my Jayco. No problems.

 

[dadoo71]

I have been towing a 2019 2509s for a while now with an 06 with tow package. Saw the same setup with a newer expy this weekend at a koa so they will do it.
Having said that, i would still prefer a f250 or bigger. It pulls and stops, doesn't sway too bad for the suspension type. But its not real happy doing it.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[Joshua Robison]

I presume the Jayco 24MBH is still on the “heavy” side as well then based on the feedback thus far?

The only unit the I have found was mentioned earlier the Lance/Coachmen 208BHS Apex Nano, being under 6k lbs and a low hitch weight. Being honest it just doesn’t seem to be as appealing.

Any other light weight bunk/Murphy bed options with a slide? TIA.

 

[LovinPSDs]

I find it so hard to believe that 3.31s really keep this platform all the way down to 6k when the 3.73 is good for 9.2K and previous models could hit 9.3k in with the 3.31 gear and a 6 speed.

if I was in your situation I’d put LT tires on the Max, Sumo springs, get a good hitch, watch your coolant temps and buy a 2509S. If temps are a problem add the radiator... It would be hovering around the max of your current setup, but well under what the Expedition with a radiator and 3.73s is rated for....

I am confortable saying this too because I have a 2012 short wheel base and you have a new body style MAX... we have the same gears, yet I am rated for 3.3K more knowing full well that your Expedition will handle that trailer better.

 

[flying68]

I think it may be more a limitation of the HD trailer tow package. On Gen 4, the 3.73 was included in the HDTTP. There is no HDTTP with 3.31 gears, so therefore the limit is 6,000lbs, but you could get 3.73 gears without HDTTP by getting the FX4 package.