How much weight are you towing with a “non” HD Expedition?

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Trey Salsbury

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Not to beat a dead horse but aside from the axle ratio which i'm trying to understand why that matters so much when you have a 10 speed trans with a lot of gears to choose from, it seems like there really isn't much more that you get with the HD tow package. Almost seems like they are pushing that fancy back up assist.
Just hard to believe by adding the lower axle gears you can jump up your capacity by over 50%. Same suspension, brakes, trans, engine.
 

Deadman

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Not to beat a dead horse but aside from the axle ratio which i'm trying to understand why that matters so much when you have a 10 speed trans with a lot of gears to choose from, it seems like there really isn't much more that you get with the HD tow package. Almost seems like they are pushing that fancy back up assist.
Just hard to believe by adding the lower axle gears you can jump up your capacity by over 50%. Same suspension, brakes, trans, engine.


The engine could care less how many gears it has if it has to try and move 9,000 lbs from a dead stop with highway gears. How do you expect an engine to do "work" with "highway" gears? Theres a reason they make gearing changes between vehicles. A Prius doesn't need much gear to move itself, but a school bus needs a big gear to get itself moving. Its just not any harder than that. You are trying to overheating this because you have 10 gears which 2-4 of never get used when towing depending on your speed anyway. Its just a numerical math game with gearing....
 

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Not to beat a dead horse but aside from the axle ratio which i'm trying to understand why that matters so much when you have a 10 speed trans with a lot of gears to choose from, it seems like there really isn't much more that you get with the HD tow package. Almost seems like they are pushing that fancy back up assist.
Just hard to believe by adding the lower axle gears you can jump up your capacity by over 50%. Same suspension, brakes, trans, engine.

Here's a video from Ford showing an electric F150 towing 1,000,000 lbs (10 double decker rail freight cars). Sounds incredible right? Well, it's only partially incredible, and partially a trick.

The hardest part of that pull was getting the load moving from a dead stop. Once it was rolling, the F150 only had to maintain that movement. You can see at the end (2:25) that the rail cars keep rolling forward after the F150 stops moving.

Electric vehicles have 100% of their (already crazy high) torque available immediately. That's how it got the load moving.

Gasoline engines do not have torque figures and availability in the same galaxy as electric motors, and so require specific low gears to provide mechanical advantage to get a heavy load moving.

It sounds like you've made your mind up anyway. I would not be surprised to hear from you in the future about mechanical problems and/or failures on your unit. And be careful not to void your warranty. Ford will know if you blow something due to towing outside of spec.
 

Calidad

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I’m not saying I need to tow more than 6k I only tow a 3500lbs boat. My question was more of a curiosity if others out there were towing over the 6k capacity and could report back no problems? Again hard to believe it can ONLY Tow 6k, when a lot of mid size SUV’s are doing that or more.
I guess the axle ratio is the biggest reason but if you have a 10 speed transmission couldn’t it just drop down a gear or two to compensate? Again just curious what others think on the topic
The HD gets different higher capacity cooling, gets different heat management logic, gets a HD rear end meaning not just lower gear set but beefier gears, beefier housing, likely heavier axle setup on the rear.
The standard 6000lb rated Expedition is purposely set up for best mileage and lower cost to purchase given 99% of SUV buyers just need a more capable mini van.
Honestly if you’ve ever towed 6000lbs with any light duty suv / truck you’ll know its not something your going to do more than a low speed x town trip. 6000lbs is no joke.

The HD might get a 9200lb rating but real numbers typically lands you at far less than that for any long hauling. 9200lbd dragged across town yeah - 9200 dragged across multiple states? Mehh not so much.
 

keny01998

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Thank you for your reply. Very interesting analogy. Definitely makes sense. Do you know what the total capacity is for these vehicles? I’ve seen some say 6000, and also have seen 6500? Thanks again
My 2019 XLT 4WD brochure states 6500 lbs. I towed my 4000 boat and trailer without any issue. Before buying the Exp, I got the Acura MDX that could tow up to 5000 lbs but it was struggle when climbing up hills to the lake.
 
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Trey Salsbury

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Thanks for the reply. Do you know where it states the 6500 towing capacity? 6500 isn't to bad. We also have a 2016 MDX never towed with it but couldn't imagine it doing a great job. Out of curiosity what boat do you have?
 

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Nothing substantial to add here but I’ll share this.

12 years ago, my father-in-law towed a camper that was rated ~9,500 lbs dry with a 1/2 ton chevy z71 during hunting season.

Added to this was 4 adults, 2 full size atvs (inside the camper), hunting gear, gas and water jugs and at least 2 cases of beer.

We traveled 200 miles round trip for several weeks each year for 5 years with this setup. On-ramps were a ***** but it never missed a beat. No doubt it was seriously over burdened, slow yes, but never broke down, even on fairly steep hills and descents (w/ trailer brakes and a weight distribution hitch)

I’ve never towed anything remotely close to that heavy w/ my non-HD rig but wonder how would it compare.
 

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While you can move down a gear to accommodate the standard rear diff ratio, and get the same speed, and torque at the wheels, it’s where that torque is generated: you are moving a higher torque requirement into the gearbox and drivetrain, rather into just the rear axle.

Put it another way, given the same engine, and same wheels, you can have a variety of gears and ratios between the engine and wheels, and experience the same torque and speed at those wheels. However, each gear will experience a different speed and torque, and must be built to accommodate such.

the rear diff is a torque multiplier: for the same torque at the output of the transmission, it will increase torque at the wheels, sacrificing speed.
 

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Take it from someone who has experienced it first hand. I know this is a Expedition forum, but before I bought my Expy, I had an Explorer WITHOUT the trailer package, but did have a 4.6L V8 engine. So the Max rated tow capacity was 3,500 lbs. I probably was exceeding this nearly every time I used my trailer. I was probably towing close to 5,000lbs. While the V8 had no problem with acceleration, my Explorer had a 3.53 rears, and no Tranny cooler, I think the Explorer with HD tow package had 3.73 rears. Well lesson learned, within 2 years after I started using a trailer semi regularly, I had to rebuild the rear diff once and replace the rear wheel bearings 3 times. And now the transmission frequently overheats whether I'm towing or not. I opted not to get the HD Tow when I bought it new, because I lived in the city and thought I would never need it, but then life happened. I met my future wife, got married and moved to the country, where I started towing a trailer hauling gravel, dirt, mulch, and sometimes my tractor. This is why when the motor finally blew, last summer(unrelated to towing) I bought the Expy I now have and made Damn sure it had the HD tow package on it. So take it from someone who has been there. If you even think, you might do some towing in the future, do yourself a favor, get the HD Tow
 

keny01998

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Thanks for the reply. Do you know where it states the 6500 towing capacity? 6500 isn't to bad. We also have a 2016 MDX never towed with it but couldn't imagine it doing a great job. Out of curiosity what boat do you have?

The dealer printed out the spec sheets for me along with the brochure since I was shopping between the HD and non HD package. HD can tow up to 9300 but we settled for the non HD.I have a Crownline 192 BR that weights around 3000 lbs, the trailer is another 1000 lbs.

https://www.brandonford.com/blog/how-much-can-the-2019-ford-expedition-lineup-tow/#:~:text=Without the package, all 2019,6,600 pounds – regardless of drivetrain.
 
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