Is an aftermarket intercooler really worth it for towing??

[42pilot]

@JasonH - thanks for the Edmunds link. Even though they address the what I think is the radiator louvers, the IC probably applies. And the total frontage the IC represents is probably 120 sq in or so and they are looking for that as an aerodynamic advantage vs cool air charge? Wow. So I am trashing those first regardless what or if I buy.

And thanks for manual info. As a pilot, I am intimately acquainted with density altitudes and performance at altitude. But I would have been wrong on what you pointed out for the expedition.

@5280tunage - I think a new IC will probably make sense, but I hate throwing big money that yields little to no advantage. Not to mention adding parts that weren’t exactly designed for the application. For example, I used 1 1/2 in primaries on my flat six turbo header using a GT35 turbo. This created a full bar of boost at 2800 rpm. But allowed it to efficiently provide boost past 6000 rpm. But the popular thought was a bigger pipe is better because more air flow. In reality it fell on its face and took well over 4000 rpm to spool. And the other popular thought, aftermarket dealers know more than the collective knowledge of the Ecoboost engineers. Ah, no.

We looked at water methanol injection for more power but the weight gain for the water tank, and the volume of water needed to cool during a track day was significant. So, we decided to go for bigger more effective brakes, coupled with tires that provided a larger contact patch. The result was, we could stay on power longer into turns than to big HP did, and could out-brake our competitors. I had 6 piston calipers (996) on all four corners. Anyway, I try to look at all angles and get data before I spend money. I’ve spent far too much my net over the years chasing performance based on an internet theory.

 

[42pilot]

Quote - Cooler air does increase the density, but ICE have a narrow stoichiometric range for combustion, so more oxgyen = more fuel. By your criteria, efficiency would be improved by increasing boost since more boost = more oxygen. That's not quite how it works since additional fuel is needed to ensure a suitable stoichiometric mix. - unquote

Well, kind of. But we are talking about work here, not keeping stoichiometric ratio. The engine will be producing more HP per unit, but it will have to work less to maintain ~2400 rpm. This means less fuel. Probably not much, but it will be less.

 

[42pilot]

Today I disconnected the IC louvers by simply unplugging the power source, and manually opened the louvers. I then drove the car to get the intake system heat soaked and did a short half bar boost run. Ambient air was 78 degrees. With the louvers basically locked open, you can see the the IAC2 dropped from 122 degrees to around 104 within 5 seconds and reacted before boost was introduced (it dropped 2 degrees when MAP started to show any positive pressure). You can at least argue temps and boost moved concurrently which tells me the intake system on this car is pretty good. This is completely opposite of what happened when the louvers were operational in my original post. AIT1 dropped a split second after boost as well which is really interesting as it pulls directly from ambient but took just a bit longer to register. Maybe the stock IC is not so bad when it has access to airflow...

 

[LovinPSDs]

Interesting post, and I like the approach…

Makes me wonder how many aftermarket IC reports are in some way related to the louvers. I mean you probably remove those if your spending time putting an aftermarket unit in

Now that said… lots and lots of people report favorable results in conditions where the louvers shouldn’t be at play… long hill towing, boosted launches, etc.

Also, I follow the F150 EB pages so that’s where a lot of my feedback comes from… I do like your approach though!

 

[Ellison Brown III]

If you were to get a new intercooler tuning would be the next step to get the most potential out of the swap. An aftermarket intercooler would be an upgrade from stock, so it will have different flow characteristics that would need to be accounted for. Also, the biggest thing is if you were to get one that mounts above the current location.; like say, a Full Race for example.

I did a full Race swap in my garage. There is a big difference between the two assemblies. Mounting location, flow capability, dimensions, etc.

As far as performance goes… no, I guess I can’t measure HP gains through my butt. However, the dyno says otherwise; see attached dyno sheet. Remember, those numbers are at the wheels, and not what’s produced at the crank. Thought about another mod(s) to render a bit more horsepower… it’s on hold for the moment. I did put a Full Race CAI on, but I couldn’t take the noise. Not to mention it needed a bit more tuning to be effective. But, the noise factor was a big deal. Took it off. My truck pulls like crazy. The power at the wheels is stupid compared to pre-install. The first time I got on it I remember it shifting so hard that it made a little “bark” noise. The truck still spins the tires before Traction Control can kick in. Albeit, I had to have a custom tune loaded to harness all that power. The week before the time was installed it was slightly noticeable that I had done something. Not until the trucks visit to Elite Performance and Tune in Littleton, CO did it wake up to it’s current form.

I do understand not wanting to alter the PCM. Trust me… I’ve struggled with the decision to do it. I still struggle wondering if it were a good idea. However, if you’re will to make a mechanical mod that’s not what Ford intended for the PCM to look for, then the vehicle won’t make the best of the part, time, and money spent. I’d just keep it stock.

I will tell you that just after New Year’s I hauled my wife’s Buick Encore full of Christmas gifts on my 16ft trailer, along with my toolbox, her luggage, work computer, work printer, my toolbox, etc. from Atlanta to Arizona… absolutely no problems!!! The power was on tap every time I needed it. Honestly, didn’t really get in it because I was trying to snatch the Encore around on the trailer obviously. But, I have snatched that trailer from a stop ONCE just to see. Enough power to easily spin the tires.

What I’m trying to say is the thing can tow… Np !!! That was approximately 9000lbs it handled with no issues. No issues controlling speed coming down the mountain in the snow from I-40 in Flagstaff down I-17 to Phoenix. Between 4wd, manual shifting, and light feathering of the brake pedal (CDL OTR experience) it went well.

I’ve only ever towed my small 6ftx12ft single axle trailer before the mod. With the truck stock it handled that one fine. When I had it loaded with my workbench, engine pulled and stand, wall locker, toolboxes, and all the miscellaneous garage stuff it did ok. But the modded version with the more recent heavier load handled it like butter.

 

[2020ExpyPlatinum]

I used to build early turbo Porsche motors (air cooled), including EFI conversions and designing intercoolers to match turbos for each HP application. HP/TQ numbers were 525/520 up to 675/640 on 3.3L up to 3.6L, 2500 lb cars.

With this in mind, I am trying to decide whether it really makes sense to upgrade the IC as the OEM is really not bad. The end tanks seem fine as they are molded plastic focusing on flow and the core seems fine in stock application. I don't give comments like, "it feels faster" or "better throttle response" or "engine is definitely smoother" (all actual comments on this forum) any credit as you cannot measure pressure, volume or temp through your butt. So, I bought an OBD II reader and started logging data.

Here are my parameters:

1. I own my 2020 Expedition, so longevity and reliability are paramount.
2. I tow a 6200 lb travel trailer A LOT and want to improve performance, keeping #1 above at the forefront.
3. I will NOT be buying a tune.
4. Any IC will have to be bolt-on.
5. I rarely exceed 64 mph while driving. It is the sweet spot for economy. BUT, I limit the transmission to 7th gear to eliminate constant shifting. It is also the sweet spot for torque (according to published dyno runs for stock 3.5 motors).
6. East of the Rockies, I use 87 octane fuel. Above 5,000 ft, I use 91 octane.

During my 2 hour logging today, on relatively flat, light traffic, 64 mph cruising pulling tandem axle, 6200 lb trailer, I learned the following:

1. Calculated engine load value - 27.84% (nice)
2. Engine RPM - 2546
3. Ambient Air Temp - 66.2 F
4. Air intake 1 (pre-turbos) - 78.8 F
5. Air intake 2 temp at manifold - 111.2 F (IC adding no value given ambient vs IAT 2)
6. Throttle position - 25.1%
7. Timing advance - 20 degrees (obviously no boost, so that's great - under boost, timing will be nearly 0)
8. Catalytic converter 1 temp - 1474.88 degrees (cat 2 is nearly identical)
9. Absolute load value - 66.3% (clearly no boost as that will begin at 100%)
10. Calculated boost - 0.13 bar (technically, the turbos are producing 1.9 lbs of boost)

Overall, this motor is impressive pulling a 6200lb camper. It is really not working at all at ~28%. For my application, this is the perfect platform as an everyday driver, and a vacation tow vehicle.

So, what is happening under boost? I did not log all the above parameters, but I did screen shot the live data (see attached):

1. IAT temp 1 pre-turbo is steady 82.4 degrees during the nearly 15 second pull.
2. IAT temp 2 at the manifold increases sharply under load and likely increases more over time.
3. Boost approx .76 bar (~ 11psi).

My main problem, and the primary reason I am considering an aftermarket IC is this - why in the hell does Ford have louvers blocking air to the IC that only open under load? Why not have them open all the time? Why close them at all? On air to air ICs, the holy grail was lowering the charge temp to ambient - it never happened or happens now to my knowledge. But blocking cooling air until its needed makes no sense. By the time they open, its too late.

So, I am going to lock the louvers open and see if the attached graph improves. If it does not, then I will buy an aftermarket IC AND remove the louvers.

Cooling the charge air temp will reduce the possibility of detonation (longevity and reliability), produce more torque (HP is overrated as it is simply a measurement of work over time - no need for a tune with the possible exception to lock the transmission sooner), and provide a more efficient (absolute load value) engine. Maybe, even a bit more MPG.

More later...

You are way

I used to build early turbo Porsche motors (air cooled), including EFI conversions and designing intercoolers to match turbos for each HP application. HP/TQ numbers were 525/520 up to 675/640 on 3.3L up to 3.6L, 2500 lb cars.

With this in mind, I am trying to decide whether it really makes sense to upgrade the IC as the OEM is really not bad. The end tanks seem fine as they are molded plastic focusing on flow and the core seems fine in stock application. I don't give comments like, "it feels faster" or "better throttle response" or "engine is definitely smoother" (all actual comments on this forum) any credit as you cannot measure pressure, volume or temp through your butt. So, I bought an OBD II reader and started logging data.

Here are my parameters:

1. I own my 2020 Expedition, so longevity and reliability are paramount.
2. I tow a 6200 lb travel trailer A LOT and want to improve performance, keeping #1 above at the forefront.
3. I will NOT be buying a tune.
4. Any IC will have to be bolt-on.
5. I rarely exceed 64 mph while driving. It is the sweet spot for economy. BUT, I limit the transmission to 7th gear to eliminate constant shifting. It is also the sweet spot for torque (according to published dyno runs for stock 3.5 motors).
6. East of the Rockies, I use 87 octane fuel. Above 5,000 ft, I use 91 octane.

During my 2 hour logging today, on relatively flat, light traffic, 64 mph cruising pulling tandem axle, 6200 lb trailer, I learned the following:

1. Calculated engine load value - 27.84% (nice)
2. Engine RPM - 2546
3. Ambient Air Temp - 66.2 F
4. Air intake 1 (pre-turbos) - 78.8 F
5. Air intake 2 temp at manifold - 111.2 F (IC adding no value given ambient vs IAT 2)
6. Throttle position - 25.1%
7. Timing advance - 20 degrees (obviously no boost, so that's great - under boost, timing will be nearly 0)
8. Catalytic converter 1 temp - 1474.88 degrees (cat 2 is nearly identical)
9. Absolute load value - 66.3% (clearly no boost as that will begin at 100%)
10. Calculated boost - 0.13 bar (technically, the turbos are producing 1.9 lbs of boost)

Overall, this motor is impressive pulling a 6200lb camper. It is really not working at all at ~28%. For my application, this is the perfect platform as an everyday driver, and a vacation tow vehicle.

So, what is happening under boost? I did not log all the above parameters, but I did screen shot the live data (see attached):

1. IAT temp 1 pre-turbo is steady 82.4 degrees during the nearly 15 second pull.
2. IAT temp 2 at the manifold increases sharply under load and likely increases more over time.
3. Boost approx .76 bar (~ 11psi).

My main problem, and the primary reason I am considering an aftermarket IC is this - why in the hell does Ford have louvers blocking air to the IC that only open under load? Why not have them open all the time? Why close them at all? On air to air ICs, the holy grail was lowering the charge temp to ambient - it never happened or happens now to my knowledge. But blocking cooling air until its needed makes no sense. By the time they open, its too late.

So, I am going to lock the louvers open and see if the attached graph improves. If it does not, then I will buy an aftermarket IC AND remove the louvers.

Cooling the charge air temp will reduce the possibility of detonation (longevity and reliability), produce more torque (HP is overrated as it is simply a measurement of work over time - no need for a tune with the possible exception to lock the transmission sooner), and provide a more efficient (absolute load value) engine. Maybe, even a bit more MPG.

More later...

Your over thinking this way to much. It's a very simple solution, unplug the louvers if you want them open the whole time

Those louvers open and close to improve aerodynamics on the vehicle and that is the only reason they are there.

If you are happy with the performance as you state why would you change the intercooler?

You seem educated, than you should also know lowering the charge air temperature will increase the density of the charge and if you decrease the air charge temperature you can cause condensation which is not a good thing.

I would not touch the expedition until it is out of warranty than mess with whatever you would like.

 

[Grey ghost]

I have a vortec cold air kit itis a sealed box and isn't noisy. I have a cooler thermostat and a 5 star tuner and it drives nice and is an animal when I need the power. I wouldn't be afraid of a tuner for a company like 5 star thier service is great.

 

[LazSlate]

The louvers on the IC in are also for fuel economy, in addition to helping warm up quickly as others have stated.
Ford makes these to run in all temps so I would imagine in sub zero temps the system would want them closed to help keep the engine at operating temps. Much like semis in sub zero have their grills almost completed blocked.

 

[42pilot]

SNIP - If you were to get a new intercooler tuning would be the next step to get the most potential out of the swap. An aftermarket intercooler would be an upgrade from stock, so it will have different flow characteristics that would need to be accounted for. Also, the biggest thing is if you were to get one that mounts above the current location.; like say, a Full Race for example.

I did a full Race swap in my garage. There is a big difference between the two assemblies. Mounting location, flow capability, dimensions, etc.

As far as performance goes… no, I guess I can’t measure HP gains through my butt. However, the dyno says otherwise; see attached dyno sheet. - SNIP

First of all, thanks for the dyno chart. That's an impressive result. When I calculate your HP, I come up with approx 650 HP given your 618 ft lbs of torque at 5500 rpm. Nonetheless, a quick and relatively flat torque curve is far more important than HP.

I don't want to get a tune because, quite frankly, I own this vehicle; its my daily driver; it has to last (have you seen the price of new/used vehicles??!!) and I don't want to wear the engine with increased pressures, etc. In addition, I just don't trust aftermarket tunes. If you look at the software, i.e., the tables and inputs to produce a result, it is complicated. I used to use Link G4 ECUs to tune, and we only used 12-14 tables, for example fuel delivery rate, fuel correction by IAT temperature, manifold pressure, timing, boost, acceleration rate, cold start, hot start and so on. There are probably well over 50 tables in our ECUs. You just need one corner to be cut, or be too aggressive on timing on boost, and so on. For me, I'm ok with the power delivery using 87 octane or 91 towing. Personal opinion.

Since our ECUs learn, installing a new aftermarket IC needs no tuning package to get the benefits.

Thanks again for the chart.

 

[42pilot]

You are way

Your over thinking this way to much. It's a very simple solution, unplug the louvers if you want them open the whole time

Those louvers open and close to improve aerodynamics on the vehicle and that is the only reason they are there.

If you are happy with the performance as you state why would you change the intercooler?

You seem educated, than you should also know lowering the charge air temperature will increase the density of the charge and if you decrease the air charge temperature you can cause condensation which is not a good thing.

I would not touch the expedition until it is out of warranty than mess with whatever you would like.

You're right - I might be over thinking this, but that's me...

I did unplug the louvers. I've had them unplugged for quite a few miles and will keep it unplugged as I see no benefit of the louvers. And around town, aerodynamics is a thing for me. FYI - no CEL either.

As stated, I am looking at changing the IC because I tow a lot, and I feel a higher capacity IC will provide better overall performance, but as you might know, keeping intake air temps low also reduces the chance of detonation under load in higher ambient temps. Think of it as engine insurance while keeping performance.

There is no condensation in the IC during operation. Unless you have a venturi in your IC (where it lowers pressure), you are not going to cool it so much that you'll have condensation.

Adding an IC to the car now, even under warranty, will not void the engine warranty. Even if I had a problem, I can swap it out with OEM...