Leaking Passenger Exhaust Manifold 4.6L

[Engineer1225]

Hi,

I just can not for the life of me get this manifold to seal. I've tried all forms of gaskets;

- OEM MLS style
-Steel Core Composite (Fel Pro)
-Steel Core Graphite(Also Fel Pro same part number as the one above, they changed materials on the updated one.)
-Mr. Gasket "Dead Soft" Aluminum Gasket
-The junk worthless fiberglass? paper looking one that came with the Dorman manifold

I got my original Ford Manifold planed by a shop, as well as that piece of junk Dorman one.

I'm coming to find out on my own that Dorman makes complete garbage. The new Dorman studs and nuts I had to chase out the threading......stock they had friction? what?

The Dormans manifold casting was really off on the first one I bought, switched it out under warranty and the second ones flange threading did not hold up when I went to torque. Garbage.

Checked for leaks and cracks on the Ford manifold, none were found. I cleaned and chased all stud holes. I torqued at the correct values and in the correct sequence in accordance to how the Ford Service manual states. The only thing I have not checked is for warpage on the cylinder head exhaust port itself, that has to be the problem. I don't have a quality straight edge yet. Other possibilities is my torque wrenches are no longer withing the -/+ 4% tolerance. They're a few years old, I haven't got them calibrated. (How off could they really be?)

I've tried double gaskets. Copper RTV alone and with the gaskets.

I got it to seal ONCE and only once. It was with the Aluminum Gasket no RTV. The sound came back after 30 minutes, retorqueing had no effect. SO I know this manifold can be sealed.


It's really boggling my mind here.. Anybody ever heard of "Remflex" Gaskets? They're just thick pieces of Graphite aren't they? Would this gasket be worth a try? I'm unsure because if the RTV isn't sealing then what will.




Can Anybody recommend a person or shop that I can take this to if I need to? I don't know who I can trust. I don't trust the clowns at the Ford Dealership, they don't know how to work on these older cars, my father got shafted twice trying to get them to fix the electrical problems. I ended up having to fix it myself.

 

[1955moose]

I'm betting you got a crack. Maybe at the head itself. If you've got a flat surface, and no cracks, one of the better gaskets should seal it. I didn't thoroughly read you post, it's a little wordy, did you torque the manifold starting from inside to outside? Sure hope so, you'll warp or crack it otherwise. I'd pull it again and use a straight edge with a feeler gauge underneath it on the head, as well as the manifold. Be sure you don't have more than .003 thousands warpage.

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[stamp11127]

Torque sequence is wrong as stated in the video.

http://www.originalmechanic.com/2013/07/installing-exhaust-manifold-on-54l-ford.html

 

[Trainmaster]

You've got the tough work behind you; you got the old one off. You also have a good manifold - the Dorman ones are hit-or-miss Chinese junk and I've had studs pull out of the bad quality iron on them also.

Stamp and I both noticed that you said you tightened these studs from one end to the next, which is improper. The directions Stamp gave you are correct, and when I followed that order, mine sealed the first time using Fel-pro gaskets. The gaskets are pretty thick and unless something's cracked, a properly tightened manifold should seal. Of course if you tighten one end it will tend to lift the other end. Follow the sequence recommended in the link above, and tighten them in two or more steps.

Cracks are possible, but you'd feel them blowing if you paid attention to the location of the leak and checked it out. I doubt the head is warped enough to cause a problem.

Pull the manifold, take all that goop off, and put it back together with new gaskets. I think any kind will work if you're tightening things in the proper sequence.

Good luck and let us know how you make out!

 

[Shabadoo]

I've used Remflex gaskets. They do the job well. Had an exhaust leak due to poor quality gaskets and the remflex ones fixed it. I'm even missing one of the bolts on the passenger side and they don't leak. Might be worth a shot. As always, results may vary. Good luck!

 

[Habbibie]

Are the motors on the 1st gen buried inside the firewall like it is on the second & third gen expy? If it is BURN THE ******** truck if it's not then you sir are one luck SOB

 

[1955moose]

First gens are just like seconds and thirds. Their all cab over engine minus the ability to flip up cab like a semi truck. Wouldn't that be sweet if we could grab the cab and flip it up like a Kenworth or international cab over. Think how easy those plugs would be to change.

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[Habbibie]

No I cant think about that, I'm overwhelmed by the disastrous design ford implemented by placing the motor so deep inside the fire wall that the econoline van has more access to the engine than we expedition & f150 owners do!

POS design I dont give two flying rats ***** what anyone here says about it, its horrible for any DIY person to deal with

 

[Engineer1225]

I'm betting you got a crack. Maybe at the head itself. If you've got a flat surface, and no cracks, one of the better gaskets should seal it. I didn't thoroughly read you post, it's a little wordy, did you torque the manifold starting from inside to outside? Sure hope so, you'll warp or crack it otherwise. I'd pull it again and use a straight edge with a feeler gauge underneath it on the head, as well as the manifold. Be sure you don't have more than .003 thousands warpage.

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Yeah I tried to type as little as possible, I was trying to be detailed. I don't have a straight edge at the moment, I will order one Friday.

I'm betting you got a crack. Maybe at the head itself. If you've got a flat surface, and no cracks, one of the better gaskets should seal it. I didn't thoroughly read you post, it's a little wordy, did you torque the manifold starting from inside to outside? Sure hope so, you'll warp or crack it otherwise. I'd pull it again and use a straight edge with a feeler gauge underneath it on the head, as well as the manifold. Be sure you don't have more than .003 thousands warpage.

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Torque sequence is wrong as stated in the video.

http://www.originalmechanic.com/2013/07/installing-exhaust-manifold-on-54l-ford.html

That's really weird because I have the Official Ford Service Manual for this vehicle, and it states top to bottom, left to right. I'll trust your advice on this though, thank you.
(Attachment removed, copyright?)

You've got the tough work behind you; you got the old one off. You also have a good manifold - the Dorman ones are hit-or-miss Chinese junk and I've had studs pull out of the bad quality iron on them also.

Stamp and I both noticed that you said you tightened these studs from one end to the next, which is improper. The directions Stamp gave you are correct, and when I followed that order, mine sealed the first time using Fel-pro gaskets. The gaskets are pretty thick and unless something's cracked, a properly tightened manifold should seal. Of course if you tighten one end it will tend to lift the other end. Follow the sequence recommended in the link above, and tighten them in two or more steps.

Cracks are possible, but you'd feel them blowing if you paid attention to the location of the leak and checked it out. I doubt the head is warped enough to cause a problem.

Pull the manifold, take all that goop off, and put it back together with new gaskets. I think any kind will work if you're tightening things in the proper sequence.

Good luck and let us know how you make out!

Thanks, I'll try the torque order that you guys recommended. I didn't think starting at one end made sense either, but I followed what the manual stated. I know the manuals aren't always 100% accurate.

I've used Remflex gaskets. They do the job well. Had an exhaust leak due to poor quality gaskets and the remflex ones fixed it. I'm even missing one of the bolts on the passenger side and they don't leak. Might be worth a shot. As always, results may vary. Good luck!

The 4 X 2 Expeditons of this gen have the crossmember welded. I had to lift the engine to get access to the oil pan when I was replacing the timing chain and cleaning the contamination of the broken chain guides. There were 4 broken studs and everything was rusted when I went to replace them. Still it didn't have a leak until I lifted the engine. I'll try the Remflex if the Aluminum doesn't' work with the other torque sequence I've been given.

 

[stamp11127]

I checked the Ford DVD Service manual also. He is correct that they show starting in the back and moving towards the front of the engine. Torque to 17-19 ft/lbs. Still seems odd, usually you start in the center and work out in a clockwise rotation.

 

[1955moose]

I agree, unless something is bizarre in the manifold or head metalurgy, tightening starts at center and with small graduations of torque moves towards outer edge in an x pattern. Removal is just the opposite, where the problem may have originated. Something's warped, even slightly. Maybe it's like installing a toilet, if the floor wasn't level to the porcelain, you need to add a second wax seal. Maybe a second gasket might work for him! That would sure be the easy route!


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[Engineer1225]

I decided to start over new. I spoke to the Ford Parts Department and ordered a Ford exhaust manifold, studs, gasket, nuts. Everything needed to do that job. Apparently there's been no revisions on the parts, they're the same as what the SUV came with out of the factory? I know other Ford vehicles got the studs updated. Cost came out to $300 before my discount, but knowing the parts are quality is well worth it. Will take a week for some of the parts to arrive, I'll let you guys know how the repair goes after I get them.

 

[1955moose]

Now your cooking! Make sure gasket surfaces are clean and smooth as a baby's bottom! Use a razor blade, and razor blade window scraper, best gasket scraper I've found, and use Emory cloth, I like around 120 grit, it gets everything like new condition. Finally take your time, and tighten according to factory spec. Do it right, also make sure the collector donut is clean and new, and you should be done. Costs a little more up front, but you'll be happy with the end result.

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