LED interior and puddle lights?

[Skauber]

Hi all!

I was attempting to brighten up things a bit with LED bulbs in the interior lights and puddle lamps in my '05 Expedition. But, it seems to have introduced a parasitic draw on my battery, this morning it was cranking quite slow, but started. I've now pulled the bulbs and I'm going to put normal bulbs back in there, but I'm wondering, why does this happen? I've looked at the wiring diagram, and as far as I can see, it must be something to do with the output from the instrument cluster for the slow on/slow dim feature which doesn't like to have LED bulbs connected to it, as the LEDs do have some sort of circuitry in there... Anyone else tried this?

 

[Gruz7]

I have just the dome and map lights done in my 2006 and they seem to be fine been in for about a month now and haven't had any issues... Also purchased from superbrightleds.com


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[Skauber]

The ones I got came from dealextreme.. It's really puzzling, doesn't make sense that they would cause a parasitic draw...

 

[racerx3317]

I haven't tried this on an expy, being that mine was totaled but I have LED bulbs in the map lights on my other car. They always have a slight glow with the car off. They never shut completely off. I asked and I was told that was normal with LEDs. It shouldn't be drawing any extra power though, if anything LEDs are supposed to draw less.

 

[stamp11127]

LED's will "shut off" when current is removed. If you are still seeing a slight glow the circuit is still powered.

 

[Gruz7]

Yeah on my 06 the superbrightleds on the interior shut off instantly


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[racerx3317]

Apparently normal. The current from the BCM is enough for them to glow according to other owners and the manufacturer. Go figure.

 

[Skauber]

I've found that the LEDs damaged the circuit inside the instrument cluster responsible for the soft on/soft off feature. Apparently, this circuit cannot handle a capacitive load, which many LED bulbs with active circuitry do represent. It can only handle a pure resistive load such as incandescent bulbs represent. This means that I have to replace the instrument cluster in order to remove the 480 mA constant draw from the battery, even with all light off and ignition off. I pulled fuse 21 for now, that removes the power to the interior light circuit in the instrument cluster, and renders me without lights when I open the door, they still work when turning on manually though. I will attempt to replace the components which seems to be on this circuit inside the instrument cluster to see if I can fix it, it's about 10 bucks worth of capacitors and two voltage regulators. If this doesn't cure the problem, I'll have to shop around for a used instrument cluster....

Don't mess around with cheap LEDs! They may end up costing you more than you'd like!

 

[GAINMOB]

all my lights are led...every light socket and all I had to do was change my flasher relay...and I used cheap bulbs from ebay...for 2 yrs and didn't have a prob...then I switched to superbrightled.com

 

[zukman31]

I have changed all bulbs inside my Expedition with the Ebay lights. Bot a problem at all. Has been working problem free for a little over a year now.

 

[Skauber]

What type of bulbs did you use? I don't know what caused it, everything was perfect with no battery drain before putting those bulbs in, I installed them one evening, came the next day and it barely started, lights were dim. Checking battery drain with my DMM, showed 480-ish mA constant drain with everything off, physically removing the LED bulbs at this point made no difference, yanked fuse 21, which feeds the interior light circuit via the instrument panel and battery drain went down to a comfortable 15-ish mA... So it is definitely something with those LEDs that killed something in my instrument cluster, just wish I knew what. Attempting to trouble shoot it, but there's no wiring diagram for the internal PCB in the instrument panel, so it makes it difficult.

 

[Lostneye]

I have used superbrightled.com on a couple vehicles. All the lights on my Navi are now LEDs from superbright except the Anzo tails and VLED Triton swithback front turn signals(went with electronic flasher). No issues. The Navi already has LED backlighting on the instrument panel so I don't know how may affect things.

 

[kawi_200]

I changed all my interior lights, rear license plate lights, and mirror puddle and turn signal lights with LEDs. All of them are Philips brand from my local Pep Boys. I haven't have any problems or issues in the 2 years I've had the LEDs in. I don't remember if I have the light dim function turned on or off. My 2003 Acura RSX has had LEDs in the interior for 7+ years and has never had an issue with extra draw or glowing either. And they were just regular store bought cheap bulbs.

 

[stamp11127]

Skauber you may try reinstalling the incandescent bulbs and checking the current draw after disconnecting the battery. If the LEDs really caused the issue I would expect an "open" from over current, not a "close" condition.

 

[Skauber]

Well, interesting update. I may have been chasing the wrong squirrel..

After going through the PCB in the instrument cluster again, I am not able to pinpoint any faulty component which is able to handle the power needed to switch the 40-odd watts of bulbs, so I began suspecting that something might be backfeeding the circuit and then create some sort of power draw through the switching circuitry. I installed the instrument cluster back into the truck and pulled the connector marked C238 on this diagram:



and battery drain went from around 480 mA to 45-50 mA. Still on upper limit, but acceptable and within spec. I've pulled all the interior light sockets, no change, so I'm suspecting the puddle lights. Will have to remove the door panels and disconnect them, but no time today... If this is the case, then I suppose the issue was never the LEDs, but rather me disturbing crusty wiring and creating an issue that way..

 

[Skauber]

More progress, in a process of elimination the fault has now been isolated to the instrument cluster. Disconnecting the previously mentioned connector must have removed power to parts of the instrument cluster and in that way reduce the power draw.. The pinout diagram for that particular connector just references circuit numbers, and I haven't cross referenced it yet (big connector). But, I took the connectors to the instrument cluster, removed the output pins to the interior lights from the instrument cluster, power drain was still there. I then removed the power supply pins for interior lights coming from the fuse box and supplying 12V constant power to the instrument cluster, and power draw disappeared. In other words, the only thing that draws an excessive amount of power on that circuit is the instrument cluster, and that power draw is there regardless if something is connected to the output or not. And the fault must then be internally in the instrument cluster. For now, I've temporary fixed the issue by pulling the fuse on that circuit, and I'll take time this weekend to once again check the PCB, and I'll thoroughly check the components that are able to handle a big load. My primary suspect would be the caps, so I'll start there and see if one of them traces to the outputs on the connector.

Why Ford designed the interior light circuit like this is really beyond me, not a smart move, specially when it seems to be very sensitive to what is connected to it. I'd think an external relay, perhaps a solid state one with a dimmer feature, would make much more sense as it would probably be more robust. Doing it like this, and then have people replace a whole otherwise fully functional 500-dollar instrument cluster is pure evil... lol..

 

[Lostneye]

I got an email today from superbrightleds.com 10%off code holiday10

 

[GAINMOB]

Sylvania.com...go to auto section and put in ur information for all numbers and locations...leds from superbrightleds.com

 

[Skauber]

Well, things are FINALLY making sense! (LEDs killing an instrument cluster does NOT make sense... )

After battling with this elusive rabbit hole for a week, I have now solved this issue. It became apparent a couple of days ago, when I came to start my trusty (well, maybe not so trusty the last week ) truck on wednesday morning, and it barely wanted to start again. I went to refuel, thinking it would charge on the way there, but after refueling it wouldn't start. Dead battery.. I bought a battery charger (finally got an excuse to buy one), and charged it for 7+ hours at home, at 6 A constant charge the whole time. That kind of gave it off, since it's supposed to go down as the battery charges. I unhooked it, let it sit for 15 minutes and measured 10.5 V, obviously a dead cell.

Replaced the battery yesterday, and today I redid the battery drain test to check if the failing battery was the culprit, as they often do make gremlins appear out of nowhere, and after sitting for about 45 minutes I had a current reading of 15-20 mA drain, jumping to 20 mA every time the anti theft light blinks, and it marks the end of a week of chasing non-existent gremlins..

At least, this shows that it's important not to jump to any conclusions, just because you replaced your interior bulbs to LEDs the night before, and the next morning the battery barely has enough cranking power to start the engine, and a subsequent battery drain test shows the interior light circuit draining power through the instrument cluster, does not necessarily mean there is anything wrong with it, even if it seems apparent that there are.. At this point, running on ebay and buying a new one would not have fixed the problem, it would be a waste of money.

Bottom line, diagnose it properly, in every way and once reaching a diagnose, test that diagnose to make sure it's correct, BEFORE ordering parts.. In my case, a dead battery almost made me buy a new instrument cluster... Gotta tell ya, the timing was friggin perfect for throwing me on a wild goose chase though! haha

 

[eemjay]

has anyone tried something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00W4MUZBG?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_4&smid=A1MGOGMI3E36C6
Looks enticing, but is it legit, or crap?