New owner with questions

[Nimtz31]

Hello, me and my wife just bought a 2021 Platinum Max with 13,500 miles on it. It is immaculate and well taken care of. We saw the mileage and jumped on it. We love it but have some concerns.

1. At 80mph down the freeway, the vehicle seems to float too much. It is equipped with CCD. It exhibits the same sensation as if there is a cross wind, side to side motion; not bad but scares my wife. I do not get the feeling there is anything wrong with suspension or wheels or alignment, just too soft suspension. It bounces around a bit driving low speeds as well. Can Hellwig fix this?
22” rims, 40psi, factory tires, struts do not show any leaking, no signs of damage, drives straight as an arrow.

2. I also own a 2019 F150 Lariat. It is the reason we considered the expedition as we love the power of the drivetrain. However, we recently went through transmission rebuild because of the 10R80 CDF drum issue. From what I’ve read, the CDF drum issue is a significant and prominent problem up until late 2022 when Ford addressed it. Our expedition was manufactured 11/21. Is there anything I can do to prevent or mitigate this failure from happening at such an early start of 13k miles on the vehicle? Or just a ticking time bomb I need extended warranty for?

Thank you!

 

[Fastcar]

Is it 2wd?

 

[Hellwig]

Concern 1 is absolutely factory rear sway bar problem. Just replace it with Hellwig product, and problem is solved.

 

[Nimtz31]

Is it 2wd?

No. But now I wonder if Ford makes a 2wd platinum trim?

 

[Nimtz31]

Concern 1 is absolutely factory rear sway bar problem. Just replace it with Hellwig product, and problem is solved.

Thank you. This was my next move. A little concerned though, your name is “Hellwig”. Not sure if you are soliciting your product or recommending a fix to help this issue or both. lol

All, also noteworthy, during the same stretch of freeway and the same speed, engaging Sport mode reduces this sensation of cross winds and float, but doesn’t eliminate it.

Thanks again.

 

[Hellwig]

Thank you. This was my next move. A little concerned though, your name is “Hellwig”. Not sure if you are soliciting your product or recommending a fix to help this issue or both. lol

All, also noteworthy, during the same stretch of freeway and the same speed, engaging Sport mode reduces this sensation of cross winds and float, but doesn’t eliminate it.

Thanks again.

I have nothing to do with the Hellwig company. Just a nickname here.

 

[bb37]

1. I have the same feeling with my 2024 Limited with CCD. Yes, Sport mode helps a little. There's lots of talk on here about improving the ride of the late 4th gens. The general consensus seems to be replace the 22" wheels with 20s or even 18s. Don't know if that will impact the problem you describe. Nonetheless, I plan to replace my 22s with 20s this fall.

2. Other than having the trans rebuilt, there's not much you can do. The CDF drum has two apparent issues: 1. a bushing moves out of position and cuts off oil flow, 2. the clutch plates eat into the splines on the inside of the drum. The solution for both problems seems to be replace the drum. It's remotely possible that regular trans fluid changes and avoiding high trans temps may mitigate the problem, but the old CDF drum will still be there.

 

[Nimtz31]

@Hellwig good, cause I just bought the rear sway bar. I hope you’re right. It does make sense. No need for the front? Could I at least do urethane bushings? If so, what size and where can I get them?

 

[Nimtz31]

@bb37
I will replace the rear sway bar first, then try different rims. Wife will not be happy about that.

I do my own transmission oil and filter replacement. I go all out with AMSOIL ULV 100% synthetic oil. I will go with an extended warranty before the 5yr is up.

My truck exhibited symptoms at 60k - 65k miles. I was able to get it covered under a supplemental warranty for $100 deductible for $9k in work. Sucks, but oh well! Do you know if there has been success with that CDF drum correction? Not enough time since then?

 

[Hellwig]

@Hellwig good, cause I just bought the rear sway bar. I hope you’re right. It does make sense. No need for the front? Could I at least do urethane bushings? If so, what size and where can I get them?

Yes, I am right. lol. I've replaced mine early last year and it's night and day difference for the problem you described. Thank me later. lol

As for the front bar, my personal feeling, you do not have to replace the front unless you like driving violently. Front bar improves the stability when I do sharp turns, but it is not related to the sway problem very much. It's like, front bar replacement can contribute 10% to the sway problem, but rear bar contributes 90%. Just my personal experience. By the way, I just reused factory bushings and end links. They've been working very well for 18 months so far.

 

[Fastcar]

1. I have the same feeling with my 2024 Limited with CCD. Yes, Sport mode helps a little. There's lots of talk on here about improving the ride of the late 4th gens. The general consensus seems to be replace the 22" wheels with 20s or even 18s. Don't know if that will impact the problem you describe. Nonetheless, I plan to replace my 22s with 20s this fall.

2. Other than having the trans rebuilt, there's not much you can do. The CDF drum has two apparent issues: 1. a bushing moves out of position and cuts off oil flow, 2. the clutch plates eat into the splines on the inside of the drum. The solution for both problems seems to be replace the drum. It's remotely possible that regular trans fluid changes and avoiding high trans temps may mitigate the problem, but the old CDF drum will still be there.

Hmmm... I have 22's on mime but, I run the tires @44lbs with no issues.

 

[Hellwig]

@bb37
I will replace the rear sway bar first, then try different rims. Wife will not be happy about that.

I do my own transmission oil and filter replacement. I go all out with AMSOIL ULV 100% synthetic oil. I will go with an extended warranty before the 5yr is up.

My truck exhibited symptoms at 60k - 65k miles. I was able to get it covered under a supplemental warranty for $100 deductible for $9k in work. Sucks, but oh well! Do you know if there has been success with that CDF drum correction? Not enough time since then?

I don't understand here. Smaller rims just make the sway problem worse. If you do not do offroading, you don't have to replace the 22 rims. 9k is too much for CDF drum issue. Usually dealerships charge 3k to 5k for CDF replacement. You can get a brand new transmission with 9k. If I were you, I wouldn't buy the extended warranty for the CDF drum concern. If you live close to AL (or may be LA state), you can go to youtuber Flying Wrench's shop. They charge about 6k to rebuild 10R80 transmission and they are professional.

 

[Nimtz31]

I don't understand here. Smaller rims just make the sway problem worse. If you do not do offroading, you don't have to replace the 22 rims. 9k is too much for CDF drum issue. Usually dealerships charge 3k to 5k for CDF replacement. You can get a brand new transmission with 9k. If I were you, I wouldn't buy the extended warranty for the CDF drum concern. If you live close to AL (or may be LA state), you can go to youtuber Flying Wrench's shop. They charge about 6k to rebuild 10R80 transmission and they are professional.

I know who you are talking about and would love to take it to them, but I live in Utah. I wonder if they would know if I could save the trans from failure?

Ford replaced my trans cooler and “sun gear 3” with the CDF drum. I’m not sure about that sun gear. I haven’t looked that one up. The transmission still shifts rough, though.

Thank you for your input.

 

[Dice Roll]

The CCD has a floaty, old Buick type ride. The sway bar has been done with some success, so it would seem you are set there. Ride is firmer in sport mode, but trans does weird behavior so I can’t take that. I actually got used to the floatiness the first week. Like it now. If ford would simply send a software update to allow sport mode suspension settings and normal shifting, I’d likely like that. Too bad though.

There is not a thing you can do about cdf drum. Nothing. If you have an option to take the ford extended warranty you might want that for more than the trans. All brands now feature weak parts we never used to think would go out at say 65k. Just life our corporate masters have forced on us now.

 

[Ugh_J]

Regarding your first concern, what do you mean by "float?"

As for the 10R80, mine had two rebuilds and eventually a full replacement in the first 6k miles of ownership (between 52k and 58k).

* first rebuild was for CDF drum/clutches
* second rebuild was for valve body (as I understand it, the separator plate has weak steel and the check balls will eventually deform the plate and begin sticking, causing some of the harsh shifting)
* third was replacement after same issues resurfaced and they found clutch material in the fluid.

Good luck.

 

[Nimtz31]

@Ugh_J
Floating: not bonded to the ground, a feeling of boating rather than driving. Top-heavy feeling compared to car and truck. I think it’s just something my wife isn’t used to. It bugs me a little, but not that bad.

Sorry about your luck with the transmission.

2 points for extended warranty
1 point for fix it out of pocket later.

 

[bmk1]

Could it be as simple as the tires? I think we had kuhmo tires on when we bought our 19 used and I recently put Michelin on and it feels much better. I felt like I was gonna roll over the whole time while driving before.

 

[BigOleFordFan]

It's been my experience on other SUV's (Durango, 4Runner, Escalade, Cherokee) that a strong, solid sway bar, in combination with properly sized rims & high-quality, properly-inflated tires will essentially eliminate the "float" feeling in most cases, assuming that the rest of the suspension is in good working order...

For an Expy, this equates to Hellwig, Michelin's or BFG's @35-38psi, on 20" or 18" rims, unless towing or hauling heavy loads or offroading, which will have somewhat different requirements...

 

[Nimtz31]

It's been my experience on other SUV's (Durango, 4Runner, Escalade, Cherokee) that a strong, solid sway bar, in combination with properly sized rims & high-quality, properly-inflated tires will essentially eliminate the "float" feeling in most cases, assuming that the rest of the suspension is in good working order...

For an Expy, this equates to Hellwig, Michelin's or BFG's @35-38psi, on 20" or 18" rims, unless towing or hauling heavy loads or offroading, which will have somewhat different requirements...

I got 22” factory rims and just ordered the rear Hellwig sway bar. Everything about this Expedition is factory with 13,500 miles on it. Essentially, there are no obvious defects, tires are inflated according to door jamb placard, there have been no accidents to the vehicle, either.

 

[Nimtz31]

I’ll check back in once the sway bar is installed and tested.

I’m going to take it in to Ford and see what my options are for the transmission.

Thanks everyone for your input! I really appreciate it!