Bedrck47
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are you still having the same issues or has anything changed
Newbie here, Dead Ins Cluster, Radio, Windows
- Thread starter mbs xk8
- Start date
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mbs xk8
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Same issues, nothing has changed. No power to instrument cluster gauges (and most warning lights), no radio, no power windows. Also, the air bag light is giving code "53" and then staying on.
Bedrck47
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when I look at the voltages you just posted and compare them to the voltage readings in the beginning I notice you now have voltage on fuse 1 and 15 when you had 0 volts before.
with engine running recheck fuse 22
with engine running recheck fuse 22
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stamp11127
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I would check Fuse 7 again with the ignition in the start position, Fuse 22 with engine running.
F7 should have battery voltage in start.
F22 should have battery voltage or higher when running.
Check both sides of the fuse for the above ref values.
If Fuse 7 still reads low it is time to t/s the ignition switch and harness.
Don't worry about the airbag now, that is a problem for later once this is fixed. Keep it simple....
F7 should have battery voltage in start.
F22 should have battery voltage or higher when running.
Check both sides of the fuse for the above ref values.
If Fuse 7 still reads low it is time to t/s the ignition switch and harness.
Don't worry about the airbag now, that is a problem for later once this is fixed. Keep it simple....
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mbs xk8
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Okay, fuse 22 has no power. The digital voltmeter goes to -0.00 when I touch it.
Fuse 7 goes to about 10.4 in the start position. When the key is in run, it is .1 to .4 as I touch the fuse
Fuse 7 goes to about 10.4 in the start position. When the key is in run, it is .1 to .4 as I touch the fuse
stamp11127
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Fuse 7 circuit has a slight issue due to the lower voltage.
Fuse 22 gets power after the accessory delay relay - looks like the relay may not be getting energized.
More tests:
1) Check continuity on pins 85 & 86 of the relay if it is removable.
2) Pin 86 of the socket for the relay - need voltage reading. Hot at all times.
3) Have you tried jumping pin 30 to pin 87 where the relay plugs in? If you can you should be able to read battery voltage at fuse 22. You will also have power on one of the three power feeds to the radio. Expect a nice spark - use at least a #12 wire for the jumper.
This circuit also feeds the power windows. If you use a jumper check fuse 401 for battery voltage. If there is power try a window.
4) Please take a reading on fuse 31- hot at all times.
Do any of the turn signal, high beam, speed control indicators work in the cluster? This checks to see if the cluster is providing a ground to those circuits.
The above testing will tell us if anything has fried in the fuse box and/or instrument cluster on the circuits involved.
Fuse 22 gets power after the accessory delay relay - looks like the relay may not be getting energized.
More tests:
1) Check continuity on pins 85 & 86 of the relay if it is removable.
2) Pin 86 of the socket for the relay - need voltage reading. Hot at all times.
3) Have you tried jumping pin 30 to pin 87 where the relay plugs in? If you can you should be able to read battery voltage at fuse 22. You will also have power on one of the three power feeds to the radio. Expect a nice spark - use at least a #12 wire for the jumper.
This circuit also feeds the power windows. If you use a jumper check fuse 401 for battery voltage. If there is power try a window.
4) Please take a reading on fuse 31- hot at all times.
Do any of the turn signal, high beam, speed control indicators work in the cluster? This checks to see if the cluster is providing a ground to those circuits.
The above testing will tell us if anything has fried in the fuse box and/or instrument cluster on the circuits involved.
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mbs xk8
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Will do. I'm at work tonight, so it'll be tomorrow morning before I can get the info to you. Really, really appreciate the help!
mbs xk8
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Okay, here are the results:
Continuity on pin 85 to 87 - yes, volt meter goes to .07
Jumping pin 30 to pin 87 - this turns on the radio and power windows. Fuse 22 gets 12.75 power
Pin 85 - no voltage
Pin 86 - 12.76 and is always hot
Fuse 31 - 12.27 and always hot
Continuity on pin 85 to 87 - yes, volt meter goes to .07
Jumping pin 30 to pin 87 - this turns on the radio and power windows. Fuse 22 gets 12.75 power
Pin 85 - no voltage
Pin 86 - 12.76 and is always hot
Fuse 31 - 12.27 and always hot
stamp11127
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I'm only in for a few minutes but it seems the problem is with the ground to the accessory delay relay circuit. I'll look into it more when I get back.
Did you try the radio and windows to make sure they work?
It may be required to remove the cluster and take pics of the boards. Don't do that just yet.
How about the turn signals, do the indicators work in the cluster?
Did you try the radio and windows to make sure they work?
It may be required to remove the cluster and take pics of the boards. Don't do that just yet.
How about the turn signals, do the indicators work in the cluster?
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mbs xk8
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Turn signals work. When I jumped the relay, the radio and windows worked. When I removed the jumper wire, they topped working
Bedrck47
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you say continuity on pin 85 to 87 not possible did you mean 85 to 86 and if so what is the resistance in ohms between 85 to 86
stamp11127
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See attached diagram. Need to pull the instrument cluster and check the connector C220b - pin 5 & 7 for power in run position.
Looking for 12v here.
Same connector, pink/orange wire - pin 2, should have continuity to ground, same for pin 11 - black wire same connector. If the ground is bad the driver seat and a/c should also be inop. If the ground is good the problem is in the cluster or a splice that is inline in one of the ground circuits.
Have you taken radios, computers, electronics apart in the past? Trying to see what skill set you have should you decide to tear into the cluster in the future.
Looking for 12v here.
Same connector, pink/orange wire - pin 2, should have continuity to ground, same for pin 11 - black wire same connector. If the ground is bad the driver seat and a/c should also be inop. If the ground is good the problem is in the cluster or a splice that is inline in one of the ground circuits.
Have you taken radios, computers, electronics apart in the past? Trying to see what skill set you have should you decide to tear into the cluster in the future.
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Bedrck47
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stamp I just measured the resistance on a coil should be approx. 62.6 ohms
Bedrck47
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62.6 for the larger relays
approx. 90.8 ohms for the coil on the smaller relays
approx. 90.8 ohms for the coil on the smaller relays
Bedrck47
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C220b pin lay-out
mbs xk8
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What color wire will go to pin 5? also, which connector is c220d on the instrument cluster? the one on the right or left when looking at the gauges of the cluster?
I'm not great at reading wiring diagrams... (obviously!)
I'm not great at reading wiring diagrams... (obviously!)
Bedrck47
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look at the print I just posted just looking at the print and the connector will make it easy to identify which one is C220b also it will be a light blue wire
stamp11127
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Please see the attached diagram, we are looking at what is in the red rectangle.
At the top 13-11 Power Distribution is the drawing and grouping that the circuit connects to.
The 1332 is normally a circuit number.
22 LB is the wire gauge and color.
5 is the pin location in connector C220b
The dashed lines indicate that the other circuits, 4-15-6 are bundled into the same connector.
The little symbol just underneath the red box is a connector that is switched to ground. So far nothing has been stated in the Ford manual what makes it switch to ground. May be solid state.
At the top 13-11 Power Distribution is the drawing and grouping that the circuit connects to.
The 1332 is normally a circuit number.
22 LB is the wire gauge and color.
5 is the pin location in connector C220b
The dashed lines indicate that the other circuits, 4-15-6 are bundled into the same connector.
The little symbol just underneath the red box is a connector that is switched to ground. So far nothing has been stated in the Ford manual what makes it switch to ground. May be solid state.
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mbs xk8
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My bad... the continuity check was between 85 and 86 as directed. And yes, there is continuity.
I'll pull the cluster Saturday morning and check it out.
Please stay with me on this! I really, REALLY appreciate the help!!
I'll pull the cluster Saturday morning and check it out.
Please stay with me on this! I really, REALLY appreciate the help!!
stamp11127
Full Access Members
Please answer all questions, by not answering them you are not providing information that may zero in on the cause.
Are any of the "idiot lights" coming on when you first turn the ignition switch to run? Need to know which are on and off. Those are the parking, abs, CEL etc. This will tell me if all the grounds are bad or just a few.
Also see attached pdf. Once the cluster is out please perform the tests listed on the power and grounds. This is the same as above tests in a previous reply. If you don't understand anything please ask.
Are any of the "idiot lights" coming on when you first turn the ignition switch to run? Need to know which are on and off. Those are the parking, abs, CEL etc. This will tell me if all the grounds are bad or just a few.
Also see attached pdf. Once the cluster is out please perform the tests listed on the power and grounds. This is the same as above tests in a previous reply. If you don't understand anything please ask.
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