Platinum no HO Engine, does Sync 4a big screen come with better resolution cameras?

[jcook01]

Hi all,

Proud owner of a 2021 Expedition Platinum here.

I enquired at our local Ford dealer into ordering a 2022 Platinum MAX with all the new goodies. I figured bigger screen, blue cruise, HD tow package, backup assist 2.0, 22 speaker B&O, and a HO Engine would making towing this upcoming season quite worth the upgrade cost.

However try as they may the sales managers were unable to sway Kentucky to build us a new Platinum with the HO engine.

On a side note, but of interest to us as well, is the new 15" screen, and will Ford install higher resolution cameras in the Expedition? Will we be able to hit the camera button and see a temporary rear towing view while on the road? The camera view in our 2021 is pretty terrible and not accessible once driving.

I test drove a new Suburban, the cameras are much clearer, turn signals will trigger a side view to come on screen, and touching the camera button while towing will pop up the rear cameras view for a few seconds.

The lack of a 2022 Platinum without HO Engine coupled with the same camera views is a deal breaker.

I can see Ford seeing the error in their ways when dealers continue to request HO Platinum for customers.

I haven't read much regarding camera improvements in the 2022 Expedition lineup other than the 360 hardware staying the same.

If the existing cameras look a lot better on the newer dash displays that could help but I've not seen any reviews anywhere yet.

In the meantime I'll keep on towing in a very nice machine.

Regards, John

 

[dlcorbett]

Why is the ho motor a big deal, the towing performance doesn't change? Is 400hp not enough? Also, have sat in the 2022 to see the camera? The 21 f150 has hd camera views, so it's safe to assume the expy will too. You can take a look at an f150 to see the views, or get lucky and see a new expy.

 

[Rob6805]

Yes, the camera with Sync 4 is much better. It's not the camera itself, it's the screen in Sync 3 that doesn't support high resolution.

 

[rd618]

I can see Ford seeing the error in their ways when dealers continue to request HO Platinum for customers.

You seem to know already that the platinum does not come with the HO motor. It is an uptuned version of the standard 3.5. It’s still very potent, and does not change towing capacity.

 

[dlcorbett]

Tune is cheaper than the upcharge for the ho as well. Also, a fully loaded expy max is the near the same price as a nav reserve by a couple of grand.

 

[Dworth]

Although, 40 ponies is not much to feel a difference, I can see their point. You are getting crème de la crème package it should have all loaded options.

 

[LokiWolf]

Yes, the camera with Sync 4 is much better. It's not the camera itself, it's the screen in Sync 3 that doesn't support high resolution.

Not true. The cameras in the 21 and below are lower quality cameras. The 21+ 150's actually has newer cameras. Yes, the Sync 4 screens have a higher resolution, but so did the portrait display in the 2020+ Explorers(Sync 3), and the cameras still looked bad. If Ford does not swap to the new cameras found in the 21+ 150, the resolution will still be bad. One would assume they will, but with part and chip shortages, only time will tell.

 

[jcook01]

Although, 40 ponies is not much to feel a difference, I can see their point. You are getting crème de la crème package it should have all loaded options.

You get my point exactly, I'm spending that kind of money I expect it to have all of the Goodies.

It's not just a tad bit more horse and torque it also has beefier internal engine components.

I'm not advocating that I would have a higher rated tow rating however given the life time of a vehicle towing at grade many times each year the added ponies and internal structure of the engine would make a difference with regards to towing.

...Nuff said...

 

[MattG]

Is there technical data supporting the Stealth/Timberline 3.5 having "beefier" internals? From what I have read, nothings different internally.

 

[rd618]

Is there technical data supporting the Stealth/Timberline 3.5 having "beefier" internals? From what I have read, nothings different internally.

slightly different cam shaft and turbo. Not exactly "beefier" just slightly different.

You get my point exactly, I'm spending that kind of money I expect it to have all of the Goodies.

This is where the Navigator will fit in... ford has to differentiate their product line slightly for exactly the reason you raise. While it would be great to have the HO engine in their top trim, it would start to eat into Nav purchases.

 

[Alwaysthinkin]

Nothing to do with camera quality but given the last few posts thought this of note:

Consumers Report 2022 Auto Issue is out, and while I certainly don't think CR is the end all of information, I do find it interesting.

Ford Expedition is a recommended vehicle with a score of 73. The negative comments were "handling is rather ungainly, and the ride is a bit stiff". In my experience, handling comment is primarily resolved with the Hellwig sway bars. Not sure about ride being stiff comment, my guess is they didn't play with the different ride settings.

Ford Navigator is not a recommended vehicle and has a score of 63. Negative comments were "handling is cumbersome" and "standard seats are uncomfortable". They also made note the "towing capacity is 8,300 pounds".

Just thought some might have fun with this information.

 

[LokiWolf]

So lets correct some misnomers here for the HO Motor.

Same internals, minus different pistons. Slightly different turbo, being a difference in the makeup of the internals to handle the higher heat demand. Turbine wheel specifically. Size is the same. The different pistons actually lower the compression ratio.

In theory the regular motor is capable of more power more easily when tuned because of the higher compression.

If you aren't tuning and want more power, sure the HO motor. But if you are going to do tuning, there is no difference. That being said, these might have limited tuning options like the 21+ 150.

 

[MattG]

Thanks for clearing that up.
I once had a Lightning and built two modular motors, swapping from S/C to a billet wheel turbo set up.
When someone says the internals are different, that makes me wonder if it's something crucial such as the Lightning having powder forged rods vs Cobra having forged rods. Huge difference in what each motor was capable of when turning up the boost.

 

[LokiWolf]

Thanks for clearing that up.
I once had a Lightning and built two modular motors, swapping from S/C to a billet wheel turbo set up.
When someone says the internals are different, that makes me wonder if it's something crucial such as the Lightning having powder forged rods vs Cobra having forged rods. Huge difference in what each motor was capable of when turning up the boost.

Nope. Again, different pistons, and a different turbine wheel. The 3.5's making big power with stock internals, are NOT the HO motors.

 

[rd618]

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2016/09/29/all-new-ford-f-150-raptor-draws-a-line-in-the-sand-with-450-hors.html

Key 3.5-liter EcoBoost engine improvements include a new twin direct and port-fuel injection strategy, stronger and lighter crank and valvetrain components, a redesigned twin-turbocharger system with electronic wastegate, and a redesigned valvetrain and variable-displacement oil pump.

Among the high-output EcoBoost performance enhancements for Raptor are more aggressive turbo compressors with increased boost calibrations, cast stainless steel manifolds and full dual exhaust, oil-cooled pistons and more aggressive engine control calibrations.

“Looking at the torque curve of the Raptor’s EcoBoost engine, you see the twin turbos spool quicker for faster time to torque – it hammers quick and keeps delivering torque for a more brawny feel than its V8 predecessor,” said Al Cockerill, Raptor’s powertrain development engineer.

 

[LokiWolf]

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2016/09/29/all-new-ford-f-150-raptor-draws-a-line-in-the-sand-with-450-hors.html

Key 3.5-liter EcoBoost engine improvements include a new twin direct and port-fuel injection strategy, stronger and lighter crank and valvetrain components, a redesigned twin-turbocharger system with electronic wastegate, and a redesigned valvetrain and variable-displacement oil pump.

Among the high-output EcoBoost performance enhancements for Raptor are more aggressive turbo compressors with increased boost calibrations, cast stainless steel manifolds and full dual exhaust, oil-cooled pistons and more aggressive engine control calibrations.

“Looking at the torque curve of the Raptor’s EcoBoost engine, you see the twin turbos spool quicker for faster time to torque – it hammers quick and keeps delivering torque for a more brawny feel than its V8 predecessor,” said Al Cockerill, Raptor’s powertrain development engineer.

HaHaHa This is a press release from 2016! MANY things have changed since then. We are talking the current motors. Everything I said above about the current differences is accurate.

 

[rd618]

HaHaHa This is a press release from 2016! MANY things have changed since then. We are talking the current motors. Everything I said above about the current differences is accurate.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but the source I posted is the only one I could find with verified info, and I couldn't find anything to say in the several years since there have been material changes to the design or structure.

 

[LokiWolf]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but the source I posted is the only one I could find with verified info, and I couldn't find anything to say in the several years since there have been material changes to the design or structure.

I get my info from the people that work on them in the aftermarket, and tune them. I am not 100% on the 21+ HO in the newest Raptor, or the 22 Expedition, but from what I have heard there are no changes on the Motor. Time will tell.

 

[carnevallemarcelo]

Crankshafts are steel forged and same design for both.

I work in the company which produces the forging crankshafts and assembled camshafts\phasers to Ford (cam lobes are press fitted in the cam tube).

If cranks and cams are the same, engine blocks tends to be at least similar if not identical.

I really do not know the Connecting rods, Pistons and Turbo. Any other supplier employee around???

 

[TBUCK]

So lets correct some misnomers here for the HO Motor.

Same internals, minus different pistons. Slightly different turbo, being a difference in the makeup of the internals to handle the higher heat demand. Turbine wheel specifically. Size is the same. The different pistons actually lower the compression ratio.

In theory the regular motor is capable of more power more easily when tuned because of the higher compression.

If you aren't tuning and want more power, sure the HO motor. But if you are going to do tuning, there is no difference. That being said, these might have limited tuning options like the 21+ 150.

Will a tune void the warrant?