Shift Flare on 1-2 shift?

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Beckta10

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Could you all take a look at the video below and let me know if this qualifies as shift flare during the 1-2 shift? Overall it's smooth and there's no jerking when it goes into gear, but the vehicle hasn't always behaved this way. A little more background info is below:

We recently took a trip of roughly 380 miles one way for a total of roughly 760 miles round trip. Upon returning from the trip we noticed when driving that during one of the shifts the car feels like it dumps you forward a little bit. It reminded me of accelerating hard with a manual transmission and then depressing the clutch to shift gears where the car leans forward a bit as it loses momentum. This alerted me to begin paying attention to the shifts where I discovered this was happening during the 2-3 shift.

We’ve continued driving the vehicle and have been paying close attention to the shifts since then. The dumping feeling has mostly gone away on the 2-3 shift, but I did notice that it appears we’re getting shift flare on the 1-2 shift and sometimes the 2-3 shift. This doesn’t happen every time, but it does happen fairly often. It happens more often when the transmission is at it’s normal operating temperature of roughly 200 degrees. It also happens more often and is more noticeable the harder you accelerate. For example, a hard acceleration from a stop that brings you to 3,000 – 3,500 RPMs will cause a shift flare of 500 RPM or so. An acceleration to 2,500 RPMs or so will give you a shift flare of roughly 250 RPM to 500 RPM, which varies between events.

In addition to this and in case they are related, we’ve also noticed the following two issues as well:

1. A slight clunking with the 2-1 downshift. It’s nothing violent or terribly concerning, but with the other issue I thought I should mention it.

2. The car regularly takes what seems like a little too long to shift from reverse to drive. It’s not obnoxious, but it can sometimes take 1.5 to 2 seconds to shift and even once that action is complete there will occasionally be a hesitation when hitting the gas. After that initial engagement, the vehicle drives fine.

 

16plati

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Could you all take a look at the video below and let me know if this qualifies as shift flare during the 1-2 shift? Overall it's smooth and there's no jerking when it goes into gear, but the vehicle hasn't always behaved this way. A little more background info is below:

We recently took a trip of roughly 380 miles one way for a total of roughly 760 miles round trip. Upon returning from the trip we noticed when driving that during one of the shifts the car feels like it dumps you forward a little bit. It reminded me of accelerating hard with a manual transmission and then depressing the clutch to shift gears where the car leans forward a bit as it loses momentum. This alerted me to begin paying attention to the shifts where I discovered this was happening during the 2-3 shift.

We’ve continued driving the vehicle and have been paying close attention to the shifts since then. The dumping feeling has mostly gone away on the 2-3 shift, but I did notice that it appears we’re getting shift flare on the 1-2 shift and sometimes the 2-3 shift. This doesn’t happen every time, but it does happen fairly often. It happens more often when the transmission is at it’s normal operating temperature of roughly 200 degrees. It also happens more often and is more noticeable the harder you accelerate. For example, a hard acceleration from a stop that brings you to 3,000 – 3,500 RPMs will cause a shift flare of 500 RPM or so. An acceleration to 2,500 RPMs or so will give you a shift flare of roughly 250 RPM to 500 RPM, which varies between events.

In addition to this and in case they are related, we’ve also noticed the following two issues as well:

1. A slight clunking with the 2-1 downshift. It’s nothing violent or terribly concerning, but with the other issue I thought I should mention it.

2. The car regularly takes what seems like a little too long to shift from reverse to drive. It’s not obnoxious, but it can sometimes take 1.5 to 2 seconds to shift and even once that action is complete there will occasionally be a hesitation when hitting the gas. After that initial engagement, the vehicle drives fine.

Check your U joints for any play, left right up down. Front and rear

Also. Year, gears, el or non el, current mileage 2WD or 4WD
 

JExpedition07

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Could someone explain to me what a shift flare is? I haven’t heard this term before.
 

16plati

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Could you all take a look at the video below and let me know if this qualifies as shift flare during the 1-2 shift? Overall it's smooth and there's no jerking when it goes into gear, but the vehicle hasn't always behaved this way. A little more background info is below:

We recently took a trip of roughly 380 miles one way for a total of roughly 760 miles round trip. Upon returning from the trip we noticed when driving that during one of the shifts the car feels like it dumps you forward a little bit. It reminded me of accelerating hard with a manual transmission and then depressing the clutch to shift gears where the car leans forward a bit as it loses momentum. This alerted me to begin paying attention to the shifts where I discovered this was happening during the 2-3 shift.

We’ve continued driving the vehicle and have been paying close attention to the shifts since then. The dumping feeling has mostly gone away on the 2-3 shift, but I did notice that it appears we’re getting shift flare on the 1-2 shift and sometimes the 2-3 shift. This doesn’t happen every time, but it does happen fairly often. It happens more often when the transmission is at it’s normal operating temperature of roughly 200 degrees. It also happens more often and is more noticeable the harder you accelerate. For example, a hard acceleration from a stop that brings you to 3,000 – 3,500 RPMs will cause a shift flare of 500 RPM or so. An acceleration to 2,500 RPMs or so will give you a shift flare of roughly 250 RPM to 500 RPM, which varies between events.

In addition to this and in case they are related, we’ve also noticed the following two issues as well:

1. A slight clunking with the 2-1 downshift. It’s nothing violent or terribly concerning, but with the other issue I thought I should mention it.

2. The car regularly takes what seems like a little too long to shift from reverse to drive. It’s not obnoxious, but it can sometimes take 1.5 to 2 seconds to shift and even once that action is complete there will occasionally be a hesitation when hitting the gas. After that initial engagement, the vehicle drives fine.

Something is definitely going on there between 3200 and 3700ish rpms.
 
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Beckta10

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Check your U joints for any play, left right up down. Front and rear

Also. Year, gears, el or non el, current mileage 2WD or 4WD

Year: 2017
Gears: How do I find this?
Non EL, regular length
Mileage: 44,600 or so
Drivetrain: 4X4
U-Joints - should I just grab the driveshaft and pull? It's been about 10 years since I've had a vehicle with bad U-joints and I don't remember what the symptom was. I think we were replacing the clutch on my 88 F-150 and noticed they were bad. That truck was a learning project anyway I bought for $400 with holes in the floor board so big you could practically stand in them so it was a POS anyway.
 

JExpedition07

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So google says a shift flare is basically slipping on an upshift. U-Joints will cause clunking but no slippage.
 

16plati

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Year: 2017
Gears: How do I find this?
Non EL, regular length
Mileage: 44,600 or so
Drivetrain: 4X4
U-Joints - should I just grab the driveshaft and pull? It's been about 10 years since I've had a vehicle with bad U-joints and I don't remember what the symptom was. I think we were replacing the clutch on my 88 F-150 and noticed they were bad. That truck was a learning project anyway I bought for $400 with holes in the floor board so big you could practically stand in them so it was a POS anyway.
Yeah just grab and try to move them left and right and towards the floor boards and towards ground.
 

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Maybe a TCM reset would fix that too
 

jrc50

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Could you all take a look at the video below and let me know if this qualifies as shift flare during the 1-2 shift? Overall it's smooth and there's no jerking when it goes into gear, but the vehicle hasn't always behaved this way. A little more background info is below:

We recently took a trip of roughly 380 miles one way for a total of roughly 760 miles round trip. Upon returning from the trip we noticed when driving that during one of the shifts the car feels like it dumps you forward a little bit. It reminded me of accelerating hard with a manual transmission and then depressing the clutch to shift gears where the car leans forward a bit as it loses momentum. This alerted me to begin paying attention to the shifts where I discovered this was happening during the 2-3 shift.

We’ve continued driving the vehicle and have been paying close attention to the shifts since then. The dumping feeling has mostly gone away on the 2-3 shift, but I did notice that it appears we’re getting shift flare on the 1-2 shift and sometimes the 2-3 shift. This doesn’t happen every time, but it does happen fairly often. It happens more often when the transmission is at it’s normal operating temperature of roughly 200 degrees. It also happens more often and is more noticeable the harder you accelerate. For example, a hard acceleration from a stop that brings you to 3,000 – 3,500 RPMs will cause a shift flare of 500 RPM or so. An acceleration to 2,500 RPMs or so will give you a shift flare of roughly 250 RPM to 500 RPM, which varies between events.

In addition to this and in case they are related, we’ve also noticed the following two issues as well:

1. A slight clunking with the 2-1 downshift. It’s nothing violent or terribly concerning, but with the other issue I thought I should mention it.

2. The car regularly takes what seems like a little too long to shift from reverse to drive. It’s not obnoxious, but it can sometimes take 1.5 to 2 seconds to shift and even once that action is complete there will occasionally be a hesitation when hitting the gas. After that initial engagement, the vehicle drives fine.

Ok, what year and mileage is this Expedition? Symptoms on my 2017 Limited transmission woes were somewhat similar to this.
 
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Beckta10

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Ok, what year and mileage is this Expedition? Symptoms on my 2017 Limited transmission woes were somewhat similar to this.

2017, same as yours.

Edit: 44,800 miles.
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Beckta10

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Update: I just checked for play in the drive shaft and there is none


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jrc50

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2017, same as yours.

Edit: 44,800 miles.
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Ok, suggest get dealer to check for transmission Valve Body failure. Mine went out at 13,000 miles after month in NC mountains using M to control speed on steep mountain descents (previously had burnt up brakes on GMC Acadia using brakes alone). Your 2017 symptoms sounded similar to mine but I described it as the transmission "popping out of gear" on upshifts. At this point I suspect Ford was using up stock of old valve bodies that had previously been recalled years earlier (no proof only earlier 6 speed recalls for same). Valve Body replaced at no charge by dealer but better hurry unless you have extended warranty.
Probably anyone with late 2017 needs to be aware of this. See my earlier thread. Good luck!
 
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Beckta10

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Ok, suggest get dealer to check for transmission Valve Body failure. Mine went out at 13,000 miles after month in NC mountains using M to control speed on steep mountain descents (previously had burnt up brakes on GMC Acadia using brakes alone). Your 2017 symptoms sounded similar to mine but I described it as the transmission "popping out of gear" on upshifts. At this point I suspect Ford was using up stock of old valve bodies that had previously been recalled years earlier (no proof only earlier 6 speed recalls for same). Valve Body replaced at no charge by dealer but better hurry unless you have extended warranty.
Probably anyone with late 2017 needs to be aware of this. See my earlier thread. Good luck!

Thanks for the info. I’m going to call the dealer today.

Does anyone know if running with a bad valve body damages the internals of the transmission? I want this fixed ASAP but I’ve been driving for a short period like this and I’m concerned it’s set me up for major failure later.


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jrc50

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Thanks for the info. I’m going to call the dealer today.

Does anyone know if running with a bad valve body damages the internals of the transmission? I want this fixed ASAP but I’ve been driving for a short period like this and I’m concerned it’s set me up for major failure later.


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Probably best to ask the Service Manager if you have any faith in him. I have not had any more issues to date and have put 6000 miles on it since valve body replaced, but I took it in the day after the problem started
 
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Beckta10

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Update: Dealer is resetting transmission logic and we’ll go from there. Hope that fixes it!


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Beckta10

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Update: Dealer is resetting transmission logic and we’ll go from there. Hope that fixes it!


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Munkiebunz3

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I'm having an extended time with r-d, d-r shifting as well. Funky 3-4 up shift where (after shifting to 3rd)the rpm rises, drops, rises then shifts to 4th. They say "no fault found" when back in my day we'd have replaced the valve body.
 
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Beckta10

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I'm having an extended time with r-d, d-r shifting as well. Funky 3-4 up shift where (after shifting to 3rd)the rpm rises, drops, rises then shifts to 4th. They say "no fault found" when back in my day we'd have replaced the valve body.

What you describe sounds like something I get also. I always thought it might be the torque converter locking and unlocking but my thinking could be flawed there. I really don’t know much about transmissions.

To provide an update on my issues, the flare is just as bad or worse since the tcm reset. This dealer has always been good to me so I’m wondering if it’s normal behavior? Besides the visual indication something might not be right it drives fine. Maybe there’s a lag in the digital display?

I have no idea what’s going on with the trans but this is the same dealer that diagnosed my bad turbo when the other would say “could not reproduce” to the noise it was making and “that’s normal” to all the white smoke coming out of my tailpipe. Funny how since I’ve had the new turbo there hasn’t been anymore white smoke!


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16plati

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What you describe sounds like something I get also. I always thought it might be the torque converter locking and unlocking but my thinking could be flawed there. I really don’t know much about transmissions.

To provide an update on my issues, the flare is just as bad or worse since the tcm reset. This dealer has always been good to me so I’m wondering if it’s normal behavior? Besides the visual indication something might not be right it drives fine. Maybe there’s a lag in the digital display?

I have no idea what’s going on with the trans but this is the same dealer that diagnosed my bad turbo when the other would say “could not reproduce” to the noise it was making and “that’s normal” to all the white smoke coming out of my tailpipe. Funny how since I’ve had the new turbo there hasn’t been anymore white smoke!


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White smoke out of the tailpipe is normal, cold mornings when it’s warming up
 
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