TFL Truck video with Expedition

[scottdm]

Was nice to see TFL Truck do another video with the Expedition. Wasn't really an apples to apples comparison with the Lexus LX570, but nice to see some attention being paid to the Expedition. Hopefully they'll do some future comparisons with the new GM Tahoe/Yukon as well.

 

[shane_th_ee]

He still doesn’t know how the 4x4 system works in the Expedition...

 

[scottdm]

He still doesn’t know how the 4x4 system works in the Expedition...

Please elaborate... Looked like he selected 4 Low, locked the rear diff, and selected the applicable driving mode.

 

[shane_th_ee]

Please elaborate... Looked like he selected 4 Low, locked the rear diff, and selected the applicable driving mode.

He doesn't think the center differential has a locking mode...

 

[LokiWolf]

He did FAR better than he did last time!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[LokiWolf]

Stupid app Double post!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[JExpedition07]

They seem to be confused. Expedition doesn’t have a center differential it’s not AWD, 4x4 High and 4X4 Low are “locked” 50/50 in a transfer case system like these use. You don’t need a locking mode on a proper chain driven transfer case like these Borg Warner TOD units.

 

[sanman28]

They seem to be confused. Expedition doesn’t have a center differential it’s not AWD, 4x4 High and 4X4 Low are “locked” 50/50 in a transfer case system like these use. You don’t need a locking mode on a proper chain driven transfer case like these Borg Warner TOD units.

Perhaps he is confusing it with the t-cases you find on some newer GM’s that has
“4 Auto” along with 2H, 4H, and 4L....

 

[Artie]

The folding rear seat configuration in the Lexus is abysmal! I like the ride hight adjustments but I think that’s all I’d want to take from that vehicle... I’ve never been a fan of the appearance either.

 

[AKentPhoto]

Land Cruiser is definitely the way to go...
Unless you always wear sunglasses so you don't have to see what your vehicle looks like.

@sanman28
Navis have that as well... And I'm 100% ignorant of what is actually happening. In sport or "excite" the dash reads 4A. When going into the mode it says there is a "shift in progress" so no idea if the transfer case is locked or variable in some way.

@Artie
I haven't used 4x4 yet... Does it say 4H or 4A in off road mode?

 

[Artie]

Land Cruiser is definitely the way to go...
Unless you always wear sunglasses so you don't have to see what your vehicle looks like.

@sanman28
Navis have that as well... And I'm 100% ignorant of what is actually happening. In sport or "excite" the dash reads 4A. When going into the mode it says there is a "shift in progress" so no idea if the transfer case is locked or variable in some way.

@Artie
I haven't used 4x4 yet... Does it say 4H or 4A in off road mode?

Here is a excerpt from the manual And I’ve found this to be accurate in real world use:

 

[AKentPhoto]

@JExpedition07
What is the difference of 4A and 4H? Is it still locked but % of torque is varied back to front? Anyone know what those %s are? Can it go over 50/50 to the front? I always assumed it was open in A mode to make it OK to drive on pavement/sharp turn.

This video was a great display of the difference in how "electronic differentials" ie new versions of traction control handle single tires losing traction vs mechanical lockers/LSDs. The TC versions are reactionary and apply brakes momentarily to free spinning wheels while lockers are already applying even torque all the time.

So which is better? Well, it depends... Mostly on the user. Most Americans are set it and forget it types and only want to hit a button once. I like to be in control and have as much traction as possible when I need it and use it as little as possible. Where open diffs with fancy traction control really shines is when you start to turn. Turning when locked puts lots of strain on the drivetrain. A lot of off roaders have their own preferences but personally I want to put as little strain on my gear as possible. Unless I know I'm going to be lifting tires I'll wait to engage lockers til I can't go further on open diffs. Also proper modern tires aired down have so much grip it's truly amazing what vehicles can do these days. My last trip to CO in my Raptor I think I used 4x4 once and locked the rear diff in 2wd twice. I was on new tires though...

More importantly has Ford upgraded their IWEs since the 12gen ('09-'14) F150s? It was always a weak point on the Raptors... People who off road a lot just got rid of them and took the mpg hit/wear on front axles.

Wow... Late night ramblings... I hope this even makes sense tomorrow. Haha

Thanks @Artie ,
I got a chance to play around with them today. I guess this is what we have to deal with buying cars designed for old people. Haha. Translations for how to properly use your 4WD system... I'm missing the Hoonigan mode that stiffens the suspension, locks the diff, turns off traction and leaves it in 2WD.

 

[JExpedition07]

@JExpedition07
What is the difference of 4A and 4H? Is it still locked but % of torque is varied back to front? Anyone know what those %s are? Can it go over 50/50 to the front? I always assumed it was open in A mode to make it OK to drive on pavement/sharp turn.

This video was a great display of the difference in how "electronic differentials" ie new versions of traction control handle single tires losing traction vs mechanical lockers/LSDs. The TC versions are reactionary and apply brakes momentarily to free spinning wheels while lockers are already applying even torque all the time.

So which is better? Well, it depends... Mostly on the user. Most Americans are set it and forget it types and only want to hit a button once. I like to be in control and have as much traction as possible when I need it and use it as little as possible. Where open diffs with fancy traction control really shines is when you start to turn. Turning when locked puts lots of strain on the drivetrain. A lot of off roaders have their own preferences but personally I want to put as little strain on my gear as possible. Unless I know I'm going to be lifting tires I'll wait to engage lockers til I can't go further on open diffs. Also proper modern tires aired down have so much grip it's truly amazing what vehicles can do these days. My last trip to CO in my Raptor I think I used 4x4 once and locked the rear diff in 2wd twice. I was on new tires though...

More importantly has Ford upgraded their IWEs since the 12gen ('09-'14) F150s? It was always a weak point on the Raptors... People who off road a lot just got rid of them and took the mpg hit/wear on front axles.

Wow... Late night ramblings... I hope this even makes sense tomorrow. Haha

Thanks @Artie ,
I got a chance to play around with them today. I guess this is what we have to deal with buying cars designed for old people. Haha. Translations for how to properly use your 4WD system... I'm missing the Hoonigan mode that stiffens the suspension, locks the diff, turns off traction and leaves it in 2WD.

The Expedition (all years) since it replaced the Bronco uses the Borg Warner Torque on Demand transfer case system. It is a transfer case with an automatic mode and uses a microprocessor located in the case and was updated in the 2nd generation trucks to be capable of predicting and reacting to slippage and also has a low range with conventional 4 high and low modes. It is capable of sending torque in increments of 10%-100% to the front in milliseconds and is almost undetectable to the driver. To answer your question yes, according to Borg Warner it can sent all torque to the front or to the back whenever needed in auto mode. Once you go into 4 High it is locked 50/50 front and rear like it would be in a conventional pickup truck and torque will not vary. This is the same in 4 low. In auto mode though it will continually vary torque output wherever needed for traction.

I am not sure about the 4th gens that don’t have 4L mode, they may use a different slightly downgraded system but from what I see the 4th gens that feature 4 low (HD tow) are the same as 3rd and 2nd gens. The cases both are casted by BorgWarner and the manuals have the same descriptions for the modes.

 

[AKentPhoto]

Cool! Thanks for the info... Any idea about the IWEs?

 

[Red Raider]

I can’t really add anything to the discussions regarding the technical aspects of the Expeditions four wheel drive system but I can attest to its real world performance. I bought a 2019 FX4 a few months ago. I took it to the ranch for the first time this past week. It took me everywhere I needed to go with no problems. We have a few narrow creek beds with muddy 10-14% grade banks. The truck had no problem going through the creeks multiple times, even in the 4H setting. Handled muddy and rocky roads as it should.
Not many people that purchase SUV’s need vehicles that can craw up steep rocky mountains. They need to include comparison test in slippery conditions such as mud or deep snow. The results could be pretty definitive, which vehicles get stuck and which ones don’t. It would also be interesting to include both two and four wheel drive models.

 

[dlcorbett]

I can personally attest, rwd and mud does not fair well in the expys favor lol.

 

[wakeboarder]

I can personally attest, rwd and mud does not fair well in the expys favor lol.

Out of curiosity, do you have the limited slip differential?

 

[dlcorbett]

Nope no tow pkg no lsd. He weight was too much for the tires to overcome.

 

[Artie]

I got a chance to play around with them today. I guess this is what we have to deal with buying cars designed for old people. Haha. Translations for how to properly use your 4WD system... I'm missing the Hoonigan mode that stiffens the suspension, locks the diff, turns off traction and leaves it in 2WD.

Idk, I’m young and still needed the instructions... there are tons of options for only two axels.

 

[JExpedition07]

IWE’s are still the same vacuum driven ones. Ford started the vacuum hubs on both the F-150 and Expedition half tons in ‘04. They use this instead of a differential disconnect that they used to use. It supposedly saves some gas since the wheels don’t spin the axles in 2WD. The nice thing is should they ever fail they default to the locked position since the vacuum holds them unlocked.