Towing boat without HD tow package

[an_architect]

Hi everyone - I’m about to pull the trigger on a 2018 Expy max platinum 4wd that does not have the HD towing - so a 6000lb tow rating.

I have a 21ft boat (2017 chaparral 21H2O sport on a coyote trailer) with a dry weight of 3100 lbs. I can’t find trailer weight online or on the trailer itself but let’s assume 1000 lbs for a steel dual axle boat trailer, plus 300 lbs for fuel/liquids, 600 lbs for stuff in the boat, and then a family of 6 in the Expy. Rounding to about 5000 lbs towed. Plus say 750lbs of people in the Expy.

I would be trading in a 2013 EL with the 8900 tow rating.

Trying to figure out if I would be making a mistake going to the lower tow rating but the tow package plus rear seat entertainment for the 4 kids in a used platinum is like finding a unicorn, especially when trying to stay close to $50k.

We’re in austin, tx so there are hills.

anyone have experience towing a boat without the HD tow package and what is it like?

Thanks.

 

[Deadman]

I would NOT want those highway gears in my 50K rig. Don't just buy to buy, get one that's got the tow pack. What if you get a heavier boat?

 

[aggiegrad05]

We pretty much just had this exact same argument in another thread. Haha

https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/shopping-for-a-new-expedition.44364/

(Altho you are going to be a lot closer to the standard set-up’s max tow rating, so for your situation the HD tow pack is probably a good idea.)

 

[aggiegrad05]

I would NOT want those highway gears in my 50K rig.

It cracks me up that y’all act like the truck is just complete trash, unusable, and would have trouble merging on the freeway without the 3.73. Hahaha

 

[Artie]

It cracks me up that y’all act like the truck is just complete trash, unusable, and would have trouble merging on the freeway without the 3.73. Hahaha

It’s not trash, the 3.73 is just much mo better.

 

[an_architect]

Lowest price I can find with the tow and rear seat entertainment is 4-5k more expensive, and that particular vehicle had “repaired” hail damage. So it feels like a steep jump.

I’m only looking at models under 41k so I can buy the flood Ford esp warranty.

 

[Wayne Decker]

As I recall the tow limit is 6k or so without the tow package. You'd be fine towing that boat.

 

[aggiegrad05]

It’s not trash, the 3.73 is just much mo better.

For many situations, yes. But think of it like a tool; if he needs it, he should absolutely buy it — but if he doesn’t, he shouldn’t. If you are not at all concerned about price, and don’t care about spending an extra $1250 (or $20-$50 every month for the term of your loan), then go for it!

It just irks me that folks come on this forum looking for answers and the only people that normally respond to questions about the hd tow pack say “yes you absolutely need the hd tow pack the vehicle is total crap without it how dare you even consider not buying it.”

It’s really nice of us to spend these people’s money for them.....

(But yes, in this situation with his planned set-up, I think he should buy it.)

 

[ETC13]

Yeah no issue with those "highway" gears on the 4th gen. for that boat.

To the comment regarding mo better....

Hey I have a nail and I need to drive it into this board. Should I use a hammer or a sledgehammer? Oh the sledgehammer cause it is mo better.....

The higher gear ratio is not needed or warranted for the OP use case.



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[Artie]

Yeah no issue with those "highway" gears on the 4th gen. for that boat.

To the comment regarding mo better....

Hey I have a nail and I need to drive it into this board. Should I use a hammer or a sledgehammer? Oh the sledgehammer cause it is mo better.....

The higher gear ratio is not needed or warranted for the OP use case.



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This will get into personal preference and that’s impossible to avoid with something like this topic. When comparing these 2 gearing options there is more to the equation than towing abilities. The sledge hammer isn’t the better choice for nailing just as the ‘highway gear‘ isn’t the better choice for towing. Can you drive a nail with a sledge hammer, yes... can you tow with the ‘highway gear, yes... are their better options for these jobs, yes. Sure, the highway gear is fine for his needs but he’s also going to be comparing it with the vehicle he tows with now which has twice the tow capacity and this will be a factor in the equation. To me it seems like a downgrade in the towing department, if the newer vehicle makes up for that in other areas then maybe it’s worth the move.

 

[Zig10]

Yeah no issue with those "highway" gears on the 4th gen. for that boat.

To the comment regarding mo better....

Hey I have a nail and I need to drive it into this board. Should I use a hammer or a sledgehammer? Oh the sledgehammer cause it is mo better.....

The higher gear ratio is not needed or warranted for the OP use case.



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Perhaps not, but it would be a heck of a lot more peace of mind with the HD radiator towing up against the max capacity in Austin TX in the summer time. It's more than just the gearing.

Best thing the OP could do it put his boat and trailer on a truck scale and find out exactly what it weighs, then make the call. My EW 248 CX was listed by every publication at a dry weight of 3550 LBS. When I put it on the scale on the trailer it weighed 7250. Miraculously, all of the new published weights for that hull are now over 5k dry weight.

Make sure you know what you're working with before you make the final decision. I agree what you're looking for is rare, but they are around.

 

[TBaganATX]

I have a 19 XLT FX4. I waited to find the exact package and it took about 6months. HD Towing and all the features I wanted. I live in Dripping and go to Lake Travis, Lake Austin & Canyon. I have a 06 Air Nautique, and it’s a heavy roughly 6800lbs. It has no issue pulling.

I have swapped all the shocks to Bilstein 5100, Hellwig rear sway bar, and sumo springs in the rear coils. Now it feels more planted and I get hardly any sway. I also have a generator at work that is 9500lbs and has no issue pulling that either.

You shouldn’t have issues with the Max, even without the HD Tow. Some features can be added. You could always re-gear it, upgrade radiator. For me I need to be able to tow closer to 10k as possible, for my equipment at work. I would say go for it, especially for a Plat and Max at 50k.





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[Fozzy]

I have a 19 XLT FX4. I waited to find the exact package and it took about 6months. HD Towing and all the features I wanted. I live in Dripping and go to Lake Travis, Lake Austin & Canyon. I have a 06 Air Nautique, and it’s a heavy roughly 6800lbs. It has no issue pulling.

I have swapped all the shocks to Bilstein 5100, Hellwig rear sway bar, and sumo springs in the rear coils. Now it feels more planted and I get hardly any sway. I also have a generator at work that is 9500lbs and has no issue pulling that either.

You shouldn’t have issues with the Max, even without the HD Tow. Some features can be added. You could always re-gear it, upgrade radiator. For me I need to be able to tow closer to 10k as possible, for my equipment at work. I would say go for it, especially for a Plat and Max at 50k.





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Nice, I think the sumo springs helped with the sway for me. I still have not put the sway bar on. I have been trying to talk my wife into a G23 Paragon and dump the RV. It’s would be at the Expy’s max. Maybe have to go to the regular G23 it’s lighter and $100k cheaper. So my point to the OP is you may want to upgrade one day. And that could push you out of the non tow Expy or put you close to the max. The added cooling is more important than the gears IMO. The Expy has the power and the Trans has plenty of gearing. 7th is 1:1. 1st is 4.69:1. That’s pretty good.


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[TBaganATX]

Nice, I think the sumo springs helped with the sway for me. I still have not put the sway bar on. I have been trying to talk my wife into a G23 Paragon and dump the RV. It’s would be at the Expy’s max. Maybe have to go to the regular G23 it’s lighter and $100k cheaper. So my point to the OP is you may want to upgrade one day. And that could push you out of the non tow Expy or put you close to the max. The added cooling is more important than the gears IMO. The Expy has the power and the Trans has plenty of gearing. 7th is 1:1. 1st is 4.69:1. That’s pretty good.


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I agree with the radiator/cooling prior to the gears.

My wife either wants a new boat or a pool. I have a hard time dropping a 100k on a boat. It just makes me nauseous thinking about it. The Gs and Paragons are sweet no doubt, I just can’t stomach that. I guess we will see how that goes.


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[Greg Parker]

Hi everyone - I’m about to pull the trigger on a 2018 Expy max platinum 4wd that does not have the HD towing - so a 6000lb tow rating.

I have a 21ft boat (2017 chaparral 21H2O sport on a coyote trailer) with a dry weight of 3100 lbs. I can’t find trailer weight online or on the trailer itself but let’s assume 1000 lbs for a steel dual axle boat trailer, plus 300 lbs for fuel/liquids, 600 lbs for stuff in the boat, and then a family of 6 in the Expy. Rounding to about 5000 lbs towed. Plus say 750lbs of people in the Expy.

I would be trading in a 2013 EL with the 8900 tow rating.

Trying to figure out if I would be making a mistake going to the lower tow rating but the tow package plus rear seat entertainment for the 4 kids in a used platinum is like finding a unicorn, especially when trying to stay close to $50k.

We’re in austin, tx so there are hills.

anyone have experience towing a boat without the HD tow package and what is it like?

Thanks.

I don't think you need to count the people inside the cabin (except maybe in your overall GCWR (Total weight of Expy, people, gear, and boat). You'll also be surprised at the weight of these tandem-axle boat trailers. I had a 20' Glastron and finally found some information on the trailer and it weighed like 1275# as I recall. So...your math is pretty close, but I'd definitely say the boat probably has more "fully loaded" (and gassed-up) weight than you're thinking. I think you could certainly get away with the standard Class IV towing package and tow your boat with it ...but it does put it pretty close to max rating (I'm gonna guess you'll be 5300-5500# with a fully gassed-up boat and loaded-up for a longer trip). I would just be weary of trying to tow much faster than 65-70mph on rolling-to-flat grades. Much slower (25-35mph) climbing significant-to-major grades.

The HD tow package adds a lot of "goodies" besides the 3.73:1 rear diff. You get a larger engine radiator and transmission cooler too. It might be worth holding-out to find one with the package. I stayed patient and found what I wanted (w/HD tow package) ...I tow a 6200# travel trailer (which is arguably way less aero than your boat); but I did test the limits of transmission temps last weekend here in the oven of AZ.

^^^ Take all that with a grain of salt in that I am a believer in avoiding towing beyond 75% of the rated towing capacity. Not with everything ...but with half-tons and lower. I've seen plenty of 3/4-ton & 1-ton diesels that could tow max capacity and more all day long and never overheat.

 

[Dice Roll]

Expand your search to ones without the dvd and you’ll have an easier time. I gave up and bought mine with that as only option I was left wanting. The aftermarket setups are really on par with the Oem offering. Hard to believe I know, but the dvd has been a sore spot on here for what bs it is. So I wouldn’t let that hold back the search.

drive a non tow pack and then drive one with. The 3.73 works about 1000% better. The turbos just don’t have enough boost off the line and once you feel the difference you’ll be wanting the tow pack. Then you’ll be all set with a much improved situation for that boat, with room to grow too. Don’t let guys who haven’t towed much in their life convince you just because it technically fits within a range that it’s some super idea to push a truck. You can never have enough truck to tow with, just like you can’t have enough money, etc in life. You get a lot of goodies in the tow package that makes an excellent vehicle superb.

 

[scotthere]

I'm picking up a 18 platinum w/o HD tow tomorrow with 19k miles. I also wanted the tow package mostly for more efficient cooling and longevity it provides driving in the heat here in Florida. I also found only one Platinum in my area with HD tow and it was $6000 more with 5k more miles. Could not justify it for a $1500 option worth every penny new.

The extra 400 VS 365 hp will help with acceleration that the 3.73 gears provide. If you are only towing occasionally at the limit and don't try to get there too fast I think it is reasonable.

If we all had deep pockets we would just get covered slips for the boat and waste $10k to drive a brand new one off the lot getting a tow pack and 4WD anyway just to tow it home or to the boat dealer for service.

People who buy used are trying to be frugal and not interested in enriching the stealerships.

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[Fozzy]

I agree with the radiator/cooling prior to the gears.

My wife either wants a new boat or a pool. I have a hard time dropping a 100k on a boat. It just makes me nauseous thinking about it. The Gs and Paragons are sweet no doubt, I just can’t stomach that. I guess we will see how that goes.


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I know this jumps the treat. But you will have a hard time replacing that boat for less than $100K. Even used, but you could have a nice pool for that. $300K+ for a Paragon or Pavati. [emoji3525]


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[an_architect]

Good feedback everyone, thanks. Expanding my search and I’ll see what I can negotiate tomorrow

 

[an_architect]

I’ve pivoted and have it narrowed down two a couple of almost identical 2019 Limited Stealth Packages with HD towing. One is 14k miles. One is 18k miles.

The 14k miles Is $1000 less out the door but I’ve discovered it needs a Transmission valve group/body replacement (or so a service tech believes) due to shift hesitation and a driving rough feeling. Clean undercarriage.

The 18k started life in Canada and has signs of increased early with might be early rust/corrosion levels on the undercarriage. No other history issues. Pics below.

Is a transmission issue at 10-15k miles a warning sign to avoid a car?