Travel Trailer fishtailed - Hitch problem? - Any advice?

[PatW]

We have a 2010 Expedition that we bought new to tow a new lightweight Lance Travel Trailer. It’s a great SUV. However, on our first (only) trip with the trailer, within the first 70 miles from home we fishtailed twice, extremely and massively, lashing across two lanes of an Interstate. Fortunately, no other vehicles were near, and we - and the Expedition - were able to avoid having an accident. We think that the Hitch was the most likely problem. After that fishtailing, a nearby RV Service Facility installed a Weight Distribution System - but they said it didn’t make the trailer any safer to tow. So we had to leave our trailer in RV Storage and make our trip with just the Expedition. We think that the Hitches were the main problem. We’d like feedback and advice.

Our Ford Expedition:
2010 XL 2WD
5.4 L, V-8, 3.73 axle ratio, Heavy-duty trailer-towing package with trailer sway control
9200 lb GVW for towing, Prodigy Trailer Braking System

Our Lance Travel Trailer:
2010 Lance Ultralight Series Model 1881, with a BAL/Norco frame
Length 22ft 8in, Dry Weight 3242 lbs, GVWR 5200 lbs
Lance Literature states: “A perfect match for Mid-size SUVs & Pickup Trucks”

We’re experienced Rvers, but new with a Travel Trailer (previously had a Dodge Dually 1-ton truck and truck camper, then a 5th wheel). We bought the Expedition to be able to tow a TT and have extra towing capacity - and are very thankful that we had it! The photo we’re using was with the Lance Travel Trailer empty before the trip.

Trailer sway - As we entered the Interstate a short distance from home, the Trailer seemed to sway. We can’t explain why we experienced the uncomfortable driving feeling that the Expedition was not hugging the road and that the Trailer was in control. This was its first trip with camping supplies onboard. We had checked out all the regular RV readiness and we thought that everything was OK, such as tongue weight, air in tires, lug nuts tight, not overloaded, contents evenly distributed, and nothing heavy in the Trailer rear.

Hitch #1 - The two episodes of fishtailing - with a Reese Hitch Reese Hitch, Part #21342, “Max trailer 6,000 pounds, Max Tongue 600 lbs.” One sway bar. (No weight distribution system. Seller RV Dealer (#1) had said we didn’t need it.) They primarily deal with very small trailers, like tent-on-a-box style. We think that possibly this first hitch (even with a sway bar) wasn’t adequate for towing the trailer and that the style hitch he included in the sale only works just right for very small size trailers but probably not for ours. Even moderately loaded, and with one sway bar, it appears that we didn’t have a lot of leeway for our trailer, without a weight distribution system in place, when it probably began to sway before fishtailing.

Hitch #2 - Weight Distribution System Husky Bolt Together Weight Distribution Hitch System #07025 The WDS Hitch has round bars, Part #2165-07-385, “1001 to 1400 lbs.” That is what RV Service Facility (#2) sells for their (heavier) trailers. When mechanics then test-towed our Expedition, they said that the trailer was still uncontrollable, so we had to leave it in RV Storage and go on with the trip without it. It’s in RV Storage now. We had the Expedition checked out right away, and it was fine. We’ve now been told that there’s a warning label sticker somewhere on the Lance’s BAL/Norco frame or tongue (under the LP tank tray?), “Do not use an equalizing load hitch greater than a 1000 lb. rating.” Most owners of such lightweight trailers apparently use no more than a 1000 lb WDS. We don’t know whether this RV Service Facility (#2) followed the Expedition Owners’ Manual recommendation for setting up with an equalizer hitch.

We think we need a WDS - but lighter weight. And probably additional sway control beyond one sway bar. (We don’t know why it swayed.) Does it sound like the hitches were our problem? What WDS and sway control do other Expy owners find works best? Other people tow successfully with Expeditions, so we hope to be able to tow our trailer, but we certainly want a better outcome! Comments? Suggestions? We’d appreciate help on figuring this out to be able to tow our Lance Travel Trailer.

 

[sgtowing]

First, I would say check the tires on the trailer to make sure they are in good shape. Even new tires can have problems. Second, check the wheel bearings on the trailer. If there's play, that would cause sway. Also make sure all the gear in the trailer is in front of the axle(s). More weight behind the axle(s) can cause sway. How are the tires on the truck? Are they in good shape and are they the correct weight rating. This might sound weird but try towing the trailer without the WDS and sway control. If the trailer is to small, they could actually cause sway by not letting the trailer move enough. When it does finally move, its in big quantities that is to much for the system. Also, check alignment on the trailer as well.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

 

[Dib52]

Hard to tell from your avatar pic, but maybe too little tongue weight causing lift of the rear wheels on the Expy. The condition you're describing, tail wagging the dog, is usually associated with a tongue inbalance.
Another thing to consider, a solid receiver as opposed to the traditional hollowed out reciever. That and a 6000lb ball may help.
As sg noted, check ALL tires and pressures. Expy might not have the right load rated tires on it. I only say that because of the XL trim, usually doesn't get all of the good upgrades.
Here's my set up that I have never had a problem with. Factory hitch, solid receiver, 10,000lb ball(overkill) and no WD bars. My trailer is pushing 6000lbs and stays glued behind my Expy. Surge brakes on the trailer.

Could possible just have a trailer chassis that is skewed just enough to pass quality control at the factory but cause problems going down the road. Something definitely doesn't sound right.

 

[Stoned06]

Assuming everything is mechanically OK with the trailer, as the others have noted it sounds as if the tongue weight is too light, or the gear is centered behind the trailer axles.

 

[dougmcp]

My thoughts:
- The tires on the trailer were low on air
- Not enough weight on the hitch
- Too much weight in the rear of the trailer
- Oversteering the vehicle
- Towing TT is totally different from a truck/camper or 5th wheel

 

[P.Bronner]

The very first thing you need to determine is the true tongue weight of the trailer. It should be around 500 lb. with the trailer loaded as you normally travel. How much does the car squat when you set the trailer down on the ball? I have a very similar Expd. (XLT/4WD-every else the same as you) and tow a boat that goes about 5500 lb. over the road.I have no stability issues whatsoever, and this is with no W/D or anti-sway bars. The trailer is NOT too big for the car. If the tongue weight is excessive, its a simple fix with W/D bars. If its too light, the W/D system will make it worse. If the fresh water tank is under the master bed (common location for this floor plan) try filling it and see if the situation improves. -- P.S. One good anti-sway bar is plenty. I don't think I've ever seen anybody run two.

 

[PatW]

Thank you all for your ideas. I'm analyzing all of the things you brought up. This is REALLY HELPFUL!

I should have identified our Expedition as an XLT (2 WD). When the trip started, we had 6400 miles on it. It was checked out by our selling dealership a couplle of days before we left home, and the air was correct. The tires are P265/70 R17 OWL ON/OFF ROAD.

We're checking about the tongue weight, but we've been told that it is correct (now EMPTY) (around the number quoted in the Lance literature, which is 356 dry hitch weight). (I'll definitely check that out again) I don't believe that the car squated at all with the trailer on the ball.

We will be checking the trailer's wheel bearings, too. The frame is said to be in proper alignment. The trailer was new, and had only been towed (empty) a very few miles. The tires were checked out - and our local Tire and Auto shop had checked for us that there was the proper amount of air in them.

We had about 1/2 tank of water onboard (to be able to use the bathroom and sink as we'd travel).

These are all great thoughts. Thank you for your help! We'd welcome additonal comments, too!

Do most Expy owers use a WDS for an under-5000 lb trailer? Or just a simple hitch like our original one was? Just a single sway bar - or a sway system of some sort (like a Hensley hitch)?

 

[Dib52]

No squat, not enough tongue weight. You should be in the neighborhood of 500 lbs tongue, IMO.
I use just the simple factory set up, no sway control, no WD and I'm pushing the 6000lb mark with the boat in tow.
General rule of thumb, tongue is 10% of max weight(520).

 

[sgtowing]

I agree with Dib.

 

[PatW]

Thanks for your thoughts and comments! We’ll definitely check the tongue weight. I still really don’t think we had squat, but wasn’t looking specifically for it. So we’ll be sure to check that out. I still think that the trailer was very lightly loaded, with nothing heavy in the rear compartment. But we will check out that issue, too.

We’ve been reading up about Tongue Weight. How could we increase the tongue weight, if that turns out to be what is needed? Decrease it? Even though the trailer is now empty, we still have 2 full 5-gallon propane tanks and two heavy-duty batteries on it.

Here’s another curious thing about our hitch, maybe of some significance. We didn’t use grease at first on the ball, just spray RV lubricant (as RV Dealer had recommended). A while before our problem trip, we had hooked up the empty trailer at our RV storage and brought it home. When we went to separate the car and the trailer, we couldn’t get them apart. After lots of neighborhood kibitzing didn’t help (lots of ideas were passed around), we finally called the Dealer and - with the hitch raised - he had us put the car in gear (no gas), first in drive, then in reverse, and try to separate the ball and the coupler. Since that didn’t work, finally we were told one of us had to jump on the car’s rear bumper, to force them apart. That worked.

After that we switched over to using GREASE on the ball. But we still had a little problem with un-coupling (trailer was empty all that time, except for 2 propane tanks and 2 batteries). We had to do the jump on the bumper again. We bought a two-foot-long pry-bar to use for getting the coupler off of the ball. But since our Trip began so badly with the fishtailing, we never found out if we’d have still needed the pry-bar with the Trailer loaded (not empty).

Pat