Used 87 instead of 93...check engine light.

[Dice Roll]

An off the beaten path station in my hometown was known for putting water in their gas. I never bought there, ever. A buddy did one day when low and only bought a few gallons to get to town. Truck ran horrible. That engine didn’t last much longer either.

 

[JasonH]

Please stay away from the ELM327 Clones. They are not what we should be recommending anymore. Seen way too many failures of the ones being sold now. FORSCAN is No longer recommending them, and is actually recommending against them. But yes, get a real scanner, and pull all codes.

I've used a generic ELM327 clone for pulling codes and monitoring PIDs with the Torque app for over 10 years now. I also have a OBDLink EX for Forscan. I would be hesitant to leave an OBDLink MX in my vehicle. I can't tell you the number of times I've taken my car to a shop, and one of the first things they do is remove it. I've found them on the floor, in the cupholder, and one went missing. With the generic one, I don't care that much. In contrast to my generic, the OBDLink MX is expensive, which is why I don't have one. Are the failures you referenced with Forscan specifically or with other apps like Carscanner and Torque? I think the use cases are very different.

 

[LokiWolf]

I've used a generic ELM327 clone for pulling codes and monitoring PIDs with the Torque app for over 10 years now. I also have a OBDLink EX for Forscan. I would be hesitant to leave an OBDLink MX in my vehicle. I can't tell you the number of times I've taken my car to a shop, and one of the first things they do is remove it. I've found them on the floor, in the cupholder, and one went missing. With the generic one, I don't care that much. In contrast to my generic, the OBDLink MX is expensive, which is why I don't have one. Are the failures you referenced with Forscan specifically or with other apps like Carscanner and Torque? I think the use cases are very different.

YES. Spot on. Don't use the ELM327's for programming anymore, that being said, yours probably has no issues, because of the age. It is the ones that have been sold the past few years, quality is CRAP! That is why FORSCAN says not to use them. The newer Sync4 equipped vehicles the ELM's won't talk to some modules very well also.

 

[RealmGirl1]

O2 Sensor. Like @Going_Going_Gone said, clear with a code scanner and see if it returns.

We also need WAY more info. Year of your Expedition, and Miles is a good start. It might just be that the Sensor needs to be replaced.

Also, an Italian tuneup(A few full throttle Acceleration Runs) might be in order.

-Ray

18 expy XLT, 64k miles V6 turbo. I like the Italian tuneup. Did that on the interstate a few days ago. We call that "run the piss out" though. Lol

 

[PhoenixRizez]

Regarding the price of premium fuel… after spending $85,000 on the Expy, with $10,000 of that just being the 304A sport performance package in order to get the upgraded turbos and the 440 hp, it seems a little counterproductive to me to run the 87 octane, even to save $25 per tank. Especially with the tests I’ve found online from car magazines that tested the difference and showed significantly better performance with the 93. And even if I do get the occasional lower octane tank due to criminal actions of a tanker driver and station owner breaking the law to put the cheaper gas in the ground tank (as someone mentioned) it can’t happen that often or all the trucks carrying premium fuel would have to explain why they’re coming back full and all the trucks carrying regular would have to explain why they couldn’t fill their whole route because hundreds of gallons of gas mysteriously disappeared. I’ll take my chances that the majority of gas stations are not committing crimes. And if you read most of those “premium gas is a waste” news articles, they all talk about mileage and engine cleanliness being the same with 87 & 93, but they usually don’t mention the increase in performance with the 93 on cars tuned for performance, and performance is the ONLY thing I care about. But to each his own, if performance isn’t your priority, save the money.

 

[2018ExpyPlatinum]

@PhoenixRizez ....Wow, where to start. First, I don't believe cross dropping on purpose for kick back is an issue. Shady driver or shady independent station might do it, but the driver has people to answer to, has paperwork. Today, that kind of fraud is harder to do on purpose. It's not worth doing IMO. Cross drop by mistake is different, but at least when I hauled fuel, is was very rare. Second, I agree with you that if you paid for the "sport Perf Pkg" to get a HO engine with 440 hp, then yes, run premium. Why wouldn't you? My Platinum will give 400 with 93 over the 375 non platinum on 87. If I don't use 93, I get 375 hp. I don't have to run premium. The other issue is, out west here, you can't even get 93. Best you can do is 91 (as a rule). So, as a percentage, on 91 premium, what am I getting? 380? 385? Is 50-60 cents a gallon, $10-15 per fill up worth 5 or 10 hp? Not to me. Will it run better? Maybe. Third, I agree with you about the articles. Many vehicles are tuned for 91 or 93. If you don't do so, not only aren't you getting the performance, you my also risk some damage to the engine over time. Many Lexus' for example require 91. If, and I don't know how they can prove it, they find engine damage from not using 91, they can refuse warranty claims.

 

[PhoenixRizez]

The other issue is, out west here, you can't even get 93. Best you can do is 91 (as a rule).

That’s crazy, I wonder why? Is it all the gas stations or just some of them? I travel a lot, but I guess never noticed that because I’m usually in a rental car and use the cheap gas, of course LOL. You’d think with all the performance pickups and 4WD’s out west, there would be a lot of people wanting the 93.

 

[LokiWolf]

@PhoenixRizez Second, I agree with you that if you paid for the "sport Perf Pkg" to get a HO engine with 440 hp, then yes, run premium. Why wouldn't you? My Platinum will give 400 with 93 over the 375 non platinum on 87. If I don't use 93, I get 375 hp.

....Wow...Where to start on this incorrect info. The power ratings are all based on a Fuel standard. It is equivalent to 92 Octane. The 375 Power rating is with that Fuel, and the 400 for the rated power in the 18-21 Platinum's is also with that Fuel. It is a tuning difference between the 2 offerings that is all. So, 375 in the Non-Platinum is less when on 87, just like your 400 is less when on 87.

The HO in the 22+ 304a, and the Timberline has a few smaller physical differences. @PhoenixRizez The Turbo is the same size, the vanes and material are supposedly a little difference to tolerate additional load/heat. No real added Power capacity because of them. Again, mostly tuning to get that 440. Again with the Standard Fuel I mentioned above.

That is all for clarity...

 

[LokiWolf]

This is straight out of the Car&Driver Test. I have used this as a reference SO many times.

 

[LokiWolf]

18 expy XLT, 64k miles V6 turbo. I like the Italian tuneup. Did that on the interstate a few days ago. We call that "run the piss out" though. Lol

So have you cleared the codes? Have they returned?

 

[2018ExpyPlatinum]

@PhoenixRizez ....I don't know why you can't get 93 out here. Maybe some stores do in other states, though I haven't seen it (think CA, CO, UT, NM). As far as AZ, not that I've been in every station, but I don't recall ever seeing anything higher than 91, much to my surprise after we moved here.

 

[2018ExpyPlatinum]

@LokiWolf ....I'm just a little confused by your posts. I've only had half a cup of coffee so far, but....something is amiss here. In the Ford brochure it states 375 for the regular 3.5 on 87, and on the platinum 400, IF you run 93. So C/D says it's 360/380 wheel. So, is Ford lying or is C/D? Or is it my misunderstanding? Either way, spending $10-12 bucks per fill up for 20 hp around town doesn't seem worth it. I need more coffee.

 

[LokiWolf]

@LokiWolf ....I'm just a little confused by your posts. I've only had half a cup of coffee so far, but....something is amiss here. In the Ford brochure it states 375 for the regular 3.5 on 87, and on the platinum 400, IF you run 93. So C/D says it's 360/380 wheel. So, is Ford lying or is C/D? Or is it my misunderstanding? Either way, spending $10-12 bucks per fill up for 20 hp around town doesn't seem worth it. I need more coffee.

Neither. You are misunderstanding. Following your logic, the Non-Platinum 18-21 4th gen would make 400HP on 93, just like your Platinum. That is incorrect. You are also assuming that Ford's 375 rating is with 87 in the tank for the Non-Platinum's, that is also incorrect. BOTH the 375 for Non-Platinum 18-21 4th Gens, and the 400 for Platinum 18-21 4th Gens are both determined using a fuel Standard equivalent to about 92 Octane.

In addition, what I posted was for the 2019 Limited F150, as a point of Data to show how much the Octane makes difference in power and knock on these engines. The Limited 150's of that 13th Gen were a HO motor more closely related to the new HO's found in the 22+ Expeditions. It factory rating at the crank with the Fuel Standard is 450. So its wheel HP will be higher than yours in general.

 

[PhoenixRizez]

LOL, the only thing I see through all those numbers is my root argument, higher octane equals more power, at least in this particular vehicle. I’ve seen that test result before and used it to justify paying for the 93, and hopefully, with the 304A SPP, my numbers are even a little higher than the one they tested, but that sport tuning only works well with the higher octane, it’s tuned to take advantage of it.

But even if I don’t get the full 440 HP they brag about, I gave up my Corvette so my wife could drive this bad boy, so I want to squeeze every little galloping horse I can out of this beast. And if I can even get just an extra 20-40 HP by running 93 octane, I’m happy to drop the extra $20/tank for it.

I might not launch off the line like I used to, but I’m content with getting this monster 0-60 in just under 5 seconds

 

[2018ExpyPlatinum]

@LokiWolf ..I guess I understand, but, per the brochure, 2018 non-plat were rated at 375. Part of the "advantage" of going platinum was the higher trim and the extra 25 hp (400). Either way, it doesn't really matter to me, and since I can't the the 93 octane, it's a mute point. I originally was looking at Limited's, but the way dealers equipped them at the time, you could get a platinum for about the same money. Thank you for explaining all of this.

 

[LokiWolf]

LOL, the only thing I see through all those numbers is my root argument, higher octane equals more power, at least in this particular vehicle. I’ve seen that test result before and used it to justify paying for the 93, and hopefully, with the 304A SPP, my numbers are even a little higher than the one they tested, but that sport tuning only works well with the higher octane, it’s tuned to take advantage of it.

But even if I don’t get the full 440 HP they brag about, I gave up my Corvette so my wife could drive this bad boy, so I want to squeeze every little galloping horse I can out of this beast. And if I can even get just an extra 20-40 HP by running 93 octane, I’m happy to drop the extra $20/tank for it.

I might not launch off the line like I used to, but I’m content with getting this monster 0-60 in just under 5 seconds

Actually if you are using 93E10 you are probably in some cases seeing MORE that 440 at the crank. Slightly more Octane than the Fuel standard used for Certification, and the advantage of Ethanol for evaporative cooling. A tune will help that even more.

 

[LokiWolf]

@LokiWolf ..I guess I understand, but, per the brochure, 2018 non-plat were rated at 375. Part of the "advantage" of going platinum was the higher trim and the extra 25 hp (400). Either way, it doesn't really matter to me, and since I can't the the 93 octane, it's a mute point. I originally was looking at Limited's, but the way dealers equipped them at the time, you could get a platinum for about the same money. Thank you for explaining all of this.

CORRECT. They are rated at 375 using a standard fuel that is about 92 Octane. Yours is rated 400 with the standard fuel. SO, if running 87 netted about a 5% decrease percentage wise on the F150 used in the Car and Driver Test, using VERY rough Math.

Your(18-21 Platinum) on 87 is about 380 at the Crank.
18-21 Non-Platinum on 87 is about 356 at the Crank.

Make sense? Your Platinum has different tuning on it, and the same fuel it will have more power.

 

[rd618]

CORRECT. They are rated at 375 using a standard fuel that is about 92 Octane. Yours is rated 400 with the standard fuel. SO, if running 87 netted about a 5% decrease percentage wise on the F150 used in the Car and Driver Test, using VERY rough Math.

Your(18-21 Platinum) on 87 is about 380 at the Crank.
18-21 Non-Platinum on 87 is about 356 at the Crank.

Make sense? Your Platinum has different tuning on it, and the same fuel it will have more power.

Do you ever get tired of explaining this? lol

 

[LokiWolf]

Do you ever get tired of explaining this? lol

Yes! But it is such a fundamental thing in understanding the power output and performance on these motors.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

also, the C/D numbers were at the rear wheels. manufacturers usually specify the MOTOR horsepower at the crank.