When is it time for an oil change?

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aggiegrad05

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I’m doing the same. We got the maintenance plan and they come get it every 7500 miles. Once that and the warranty are up we’ll decide at that point to keep it or bail. That will be at the 8 year point unless we hit the mileage which wouldn’t be too much earlier if we did.

Same. I am not an acolyte of the ”manufacturers want these things to die so they can sell you a new one” idea. I believe they try to make a quality product. I also believe no one knows these vehicles better than the people who designed and built them (which is the same reason I don't think it's a good idea to tune them or remove top-speed limiters or other such things). So I'm following the schedule and the oil life monitor. I also plan to get something new when my warranty runs out.

Here's an Edmunds article (from 9 years ago) on oil change myths:

https://www.edmunds.com/car-maintenance/top-7-urban-legends-about-motor-oil.html

The first one is that you need to change your oil every 3k miles instead of following the schedule. Busted.

The fifth is that you need to do your first oil change early. Busted. (They also note that Honda includes an additive to the oil from the factory that helps the break-in process which actually makes it detrimental to change the oil early. Nothing about any other manufacturer, but this was 9 years ago, so maybe Ford does too now.)
 

TobyU

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You can never have any issues from changing the oil before the recommended oil change interval. Not with warranty or anything else. This would just show you're going above and beyond taking care of your vehicle. On the other note, manufacturers don't tell you to change the oil at 7500 miles so you can get the utmost life out of vehicle. When someone says they don't think the manufacturers want them to wear out quickly they are correct but they don't want them to last forever either. There is always a compromise between engineers, mechanics, designers, and manufacturers at the top level.
People argue all the time about 100% following what the manufacturer recommends such as oil grades Etc. They are wrong. If you do the bare minimum of what a manufacturer recommends you are not giving the vehicle the utmost level of protection, durability or longevity. Remember while they don't want your vehicle to wear out to prematurely they also don't want want it to last for 25 years.
But for the topic of oil change intervals it will make very little difference. As I stated before in this thread whether you change the oil at 1000 miles when you buy a new or 7500 Miles when you buy it new and did this for 500 vehicles each way. And those thousand Vehicles you would not notice any statistical differences on the engines having problems, wearing out or whatever between the ones that were changed it a thousand in the ones that were changed at 7500. It just doesn't make that much difference. But as I also said the oil will be dirtier when the engine is new and there will be more grit floating around in there the point is it doesn't do that much harm anyways.
So there are some facts you can focus on and you can even test the clarity and the contamination level and metal particulate particles like from Blackstone labs in an engine that only had two thousand miles on it from brand new and then test the same engine on the next oil change at 2000 miles and if you continue to do this you would find much less metal and much less metal and much fewer contaminants by the second or third oil change and you would in the first so it's a fact there's more in there. However it's also a fact but it makes very little difference.
 

aggiegrad05

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You can never have any issues from changing the oil before the recommended oil change interval. Not with warranty or anything else. This would just show you're going above and beyond taking care of your vehicle. On the other note, manufacturers don't tell you to change the oil at 7500 miles so you can get the utmost life out of vehicle. When someone says they don't think the manufacturers want them to wear out quickly they are correct but they don't want them to last forever either. There is always a compromise between engineers, mechanics, designers, and manufacturers at the top level.
People argue all the time about 100% following what the manufacturer recommends such as oil grades Etc. They are wrong. If you do the bare minimum of what a manufacturer recommends you are not giving the vehicle the utmost level of protection, durability or longevity. Remember while they don't want your vehicle to wear out to prematurely they also don't want want it to last for 25 years.
But for the topic of oil change intervals it will make very little difference. As I stated before in this thread whether you change the oil at 1000 miles when you buy a new or 7500 Miles when you buy it new and did this for 500 vehicles each way. And those thousand Vehicles you would not notice any statistical differences on the engines having problems, wearing out or whatever between the ones that were changed it a thousand in the ones that were changed at 7500. It just doesn't make that much difference. But as I also said the oil will be dirtier when the engine is new and there will be more grit floating around in there the point is it doesn't do that much harm anyways.
So there are some facts you can focus on and you can even test the clarity and the contamination level and metal particulate particles like from Blackstone labs in an engine that only had two thousand miles on it from brand new and then test the same engine on the next oil change at 2000 miles and if you continue to do this you would find much less metal and much less metal and much fewer contaminants by the second or third oil change and you would in the first so it's a fact there's more in there. However it's also a fact but it makes very little difference.

I agree with all this. But why 3000 miles? What is the magic of that number? Going with the logic of your post, why not change it every 1000 miles? Or 500?

Because someone at some point (with the engine and oil technology that was current at that time) decided 3000 was the “right” number. And that was at least 20 years ago because I have been driving for that long and it was 3000 when I got my first car. So we’ve held to this 3000 number over a 20 year period even though technology surrounding engines, oil, manufacturing, materials, quality control, etc have all advanced significantly.

So no, I have no beef with anyone changing their oil more regularly than the oil life monitor and the scheduled maintenance schedule suggest. But the main benefit of holding to that likely outdated standard of care is probably just peace of mind and not much else. But there is a LOT of value to peace of mind, that’s why I have life insurance.

(important disclaimer: I am not an engineer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night)
 
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Lou Hamilton

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I think you need to also look at timeframes, too.

My wife drives a 2017 Honda CR-V. Honda states for newer cars use the 1 Year/7500 Miles schedule. More aggressive drivers should follow the 3 Month/3000 Mile schedule.

My wife had her first oil change Sept/Oct 2019 with only ~3500 miles. She basically drives 1 mile to work and 1 mile home every day. Additional miles are when she needs to run errands or needs to pick up our son. To put things in perspective, her last car was a 2002 Honda Civic and it currently only has 80K miles on it.

All this talk about what mileage should be used, just needs to remember that some people are on the 6 Month or 1 Year schedule. ;)

I will also need to talk to my service guys and ask about tranny fluid changes. On my Honda Pilot, I would get it changed at the end of every towing season. Depending on how much I actually towed, I would get a full flush. Not sure how Expys deal with that and the 10 Speed tranny.
 

Lou Hamilton

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I agree with all this. But why 3000 miles? What is the magic of that number? Going with the logic of your post, why not change it every 1000 miles? Or 500?

Because someone at some point (with the engine and oil technology that was current at that time) decided 3000 was the “right” number. And that was at least 20 years ago because I have been driving for that long and it was 3000 when I got my first car. So we’ve held to this 3000 number over a 20 year period even though technology surrounding engines, oil, manufacturing, materials, quality control, etc have all advanced significantly.

So no, I have no beef with anyone changing their oil more regularly than the oil life monitor and the scheduled maintenance schedule suggest. But the main benefit of holding to that likely outdated standard of care is probably just peace of mind and not much else. But there is a LOT of value to peace of mind, that’s why I have life insurance.

(important disclaimer: I am not an engineer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night)

Honestly, I think mileage was something people could remember easier. I remember when the average driver would put on 12,000 miles per year. If you dived that by 3 months, you get 3000 miles. My guess is that was where the old 3 Month/3000 mile number came from. I
 
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armoredsaint

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my service advisor was hot, tall about 5'9" slim blonde chick in yoga pants and a form-fitting ford polo shirt with zero personality, but the eye candy made up for it :D
 

aggiegrad05

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my service advisor was hot, tall about 5'9" slim blonde chick in yoga pants and a form-fitting ford polo shirt with zero personality, but the eye candy made up for it :D

My service advisors are usually male. And pushing retirement. And 250 pounds plus. And thankfully not wearing yoga pants.

Clearly I’m going to the wrong dealership.
 

Plati

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my service advisor was hot, tall about 5'9" slim blonde chick in yoga pants and a form-fitting ford polo shirt with zero personality, but the eye candy made up for it :D
In that situation, oil changes are weekly
 

TobyU

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I agree with all this. But why 3000 miles? What is the magic of that number? Going with the logic of your post, why not change it every 1000 miles? Or 500?

Because someone at some point (with the engine and oil technology that was current at that time) decided 3000 was the “right” number. And that was at least 20 years ago because I have been driving for that long and it was 3000 when I got my first car. So we’ve held to this 3000 number over a 20 year period even though technology surrounding engines, oil, manufacturing, materials, quality control, etc have all advanced significantly.

So no, I have no beef with anyone changing their oil more regularly than the oil life monitor and the scheduled maintenance schedule suggest. But the main benefit of holding to that likely outdated standard of care is probably just peace of mind and not much else. But there is a LOT of value to peace of mind, that’s why I have life insurance.

(important disclaimer: I am not an engineer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night)
I don't think I ever mentioned 3000 Miles. I was only saying that on a brand new engine or a rebuilt one I would do it before 1500 or 2000. After that 3000 is actually too early. You're correct the 3000 came into play a little over twenty years ago. But it is actually a scam! The industry has convinced the American people to change the oil every 3 months or 3000 Miles simply because Jiffy Lube and the likes of the Quick Change Oil places wanted to build an Empire which they did. There were those things on almost every corner and multiple ones in every city. Now a lot of it has died off and they have disappeared down to probably less than half of what they used to be or maybe even 25%.
At no time that engines actually need their oil changed every 3000 Miles however one benefit was the older cars tend to use or leak more oil and for people who are too lazy to pull the stick and check it or add to it having it done every 3 months could save some engines.
We have been spoiled by engines since the late 80s with not using or leaking oil. We can go an entire 3 to 3500 miles and not be over a quart low on the stick. Some use hardly any in that length of time. In the old days this didn't happen. In the old days you would blow up your engine or at least turn a corner and have the oil light flicker on it cuz you were down to very minimal amount of oil. But remember Society changed. And these old days you had full service gas stations that check and topped off your oil for free and then later on they started charging it for it but they still did it.
Garages used to fix cars and happened to do an oil change while you were there. People did still take their cars in to get their services but it was nothing like the massive industry created by the Quick Change Oil places
The 3-month 3000 Miles was just to keep them making more business and allow me to build more stores.
We must remember that during these exact same times all of the manufacturers were saying to change the oil every 7500 miles or 5000 miles. Very few manufacturers recommended 3000.
So the magic number was probably just what they figured the people would believe.
I will give them some credit as there might have been some thought put into it about what I said earlier about how long it takes for the car to get down to a level that it's starting to get a little dangerous. Had they have said 5 months 5000 miles I would have been more into a danger level than 3000.
So maybe there was a little bit of logic behind it but mostly it was let's make it as short as possible so we can make more money by changing oil more often.
The dealers and smaller garages didn't really want you to come in any more than you had to for oil changes and Lube is because they didn't really like doing them and they didn't make that much money. It's almost a lost leader for some of the shops. That's why they would run their 9.95 oil change specials. They did it at Cost or just slightly above cost so I can get you in there to pick out everything else your car needed to get your future business.
 

aggiegrad05

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I don't think I ever mentioned 3000 Miles. I was only saying that on a brand new engine or a rebuilt one I would do it before 1500 or 2000. After that 3000 is actually too early. You're correct the 3000 came into play a little over twenty years ago. But it is actually a scam! The industry has convinced the American people to change the oil every 3 months or 3000 Miles simply because Jiffy Lube and the likes of the Quick Change Oil places wanted to build an Empire which they did. There were those things on almost every corner and multiple ones in every city. Now a lot of it has died off and they have disappeared down to probably less than half of what they used to be or maybe even 25%.
At no time that engines actually need their oil changed every 3000 Miles however one benefit was the older cars tend to use or leak more oil and for people who are too lazy to pull the stick and check it or add to it having it done every 3 months could save some engines.
We have been spoiled by engines since the late 80s with not using or leaking oil. We can go an entire 3 to 3500 miles and not be over a quart low on the stick. Some use hardly any in that length of time. In the old days this didn't happen. In the old days you would blow up your engine or at least turn a corner and have the oil light flicker on it cuz you were down to very minimal amount of oil. But remember Society changed. And these old days you had full service gas stations that check and topped off your oil for free and then later on they started charging it for it but they still did it.
Garages used to fix cars and happened to do an oil change while you were there. People did still take their cars in to get their services but it was nothing like the massive industry created by the Quick Change Oil places
The 3-month 3000 Miles was just to keep them making more business and allow me to build more stores.
We must remember that during these exact same times all of the manufacturers were saying to change the oil every 7500 miles or 5000 miles. Very few manufacturers recommended 3000.
So the magic number was probably just what they figured the people would believe.
I will give them some credit as there might have been some thought put into it about what I said earlier about how long it takes for the car to get down to a level that it's starting to get a little dangerous. Had they have said 5 months 5000 miles I would have been more into a danger level than 3000.
So maybe there was a little bit of logic behind it but mostly it was let's make it as short as possible so we can make more money by changing oil more often.
The dealers and smaller garages didn't really want you to come in any more than you had to for oil changes and Lube is because they didn't really like doing them and they didn't make that much money. It's almost a lost leader for some of the shops. That's why they would run their 9.95 oil change specials. They did it at Cost or just slightly above cost so I can get you in there to pick out everything else your car needed to get your future business.

I was not at all suggesting you were advocating 3k miles. If it came off that way, I apologize. I think everything you're saying is spot on.
 

Deadman

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True dat. Probably why you see so many Escalades repossessed.

It also affects how you maintain your vehicle. When you buy it and expect to keep it long term, you do the little things extra. But most seem to be of the mindset that they are just dumping theirs in a few years and starting a new mortgage.

I bought a case of oil filters for mine, so I'll be dumping it often. I do a lot of short trips, so moisture builds up in my oil, especially in winter.
 

lbv150

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The vehicles I bought new are still owned and no plans to get rid of. Oil and filter changes every 3,000. The '16 Expy regardless of the oil monitor 3,000 with Motorcraft Semi synth... it has turbos and tight oil passages. So far I have pulled apart the '85 Mustang, '89 and 95 F350...zero cylinder wear, so no one can ever convince me that changing the oil "too soon" is a waste.
 

Brent Harward

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5K-6K blend oil change. Tire front to back/balance 10K to 12K. Every other change. Use blend and NEVER GO BACK TO THE DEALER! They're **** orifices. JS
 

TobyU

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The vehicles I bought new are still owned and no plans to get rid of. Oil and filter changes every 3,000. The '16 Expy regardless of the oil monitor 3,000 with Motorcraft Semi synth... it has turbos and tight oil passages. So far I have pulled apart the '85 Mustang, '89 and 95 F350...zero cylinder wear, so no one can ever convince me that changing the oil "too soon" is a waste.
The thing is, you have nothing else to compare it to. If you would have changed the oil with let's say plain old Valvoline at every 5,500 miles and pulled it apart you would still see the original cross hatcheswith zero visible wear.
Let's face it folks... Engines rarely fail and rarely wear out due to lack of lubrication from poor quality or dirty oil. Engines fail due to lack of oil.
Very rarely do engines actually wear out.
Now let me hit on another topic that's a sore spot for me, even using the best synthetic oil out there and changing every 3000 Miles you're going to see more repairs needed for the 05 and up timing chain, tensioner and cam phasers. They simply aren't making these plastic guides and parts durable enough. Clean synthetic does help but it's not the cure-all.
But this isn't actually what we would call wearing out. This is just a design flaw or poor quality design or poor materials and it is a shame that everyone is accepting a 1200 to $1800 job having to be performed between 85k and 115k as acceptable.
 

TobyU

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I change my oil every 3,000 miles no matter what and I use Mobil 1.
And you'll be just fine doing that. You would also be fine changing at 7,000 with mobil 1. If you did some research and reading up on it though you'd probably switch from mobile one unless you using the extended performance. Mobil 1 isn't as good as it used to be but it's still a good synthetic oil just not one of the top-tier fully synthetic oils.
 
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armoredsaint

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It also affects how you maintain your vehicle. When you buy it and expect to keep it long term, you do the little things extra. But most seem to be of the mindset that they are just dumping theirs in a few years and starting a new mortgage.

I bought a case of oil filters for mine, so I'll be dumping it often. I do a lot of short trips, so moisture builds up in my oil, especially in winter.

i had a 2019 with the ESV/extended version and it was a POS, for over $100k it didn't have ACC!!! i returned it.
 

duneslider

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And you'll be just fine doing that. You would also be fine changing at 7,000 with mobil 1. If you did some research and reading up on it though you'd probably switch from mobile one unless you using the extended performance. Mobil 1 isn't as good as it used to be but it's still a good synthetic oil just not one of the top-tier fully synthetic oils.

Over the course of almost 180k miles and two motors on my Jeep JK mobil 1 disappears at a higher rate than all other oils I have used. If I use mobil 1 I will be at least a quart low by 3k miles, all other oils it is less than a half quart low. This is seen using 5w20 and 5w30. I saw this consistently over the first ~50k miles and then stopped using mobil and went to Castrol and consumption nearly disappeared. I thought it was a fluke and tried mobil again for a few changes and again saw an increased consumption. I also saw increased consumption in my Hemi when using mobil 1. Maybe its just a chrysler thing but it was enough personal experience for me to not use mobil 1 any more. I replaced the first motor in my jeep at somewhere passed 60k due to a number of issues but when I tore it down there was significant carbon build-up in several cylinders. That is when I decided to not use mobil anymore.
 

KenK

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I'm not claiming expertise on engine oil, here is my 2 cents.
Oils from back in the day had zinc and other additives to manage wear from high pressures of mechanical lifters on cam shafts. The EPA pushed auto and oil companies to remove those additives which is one of the reasons roller cams are ubiquitous now. Even though us gear heads see this as a good thing, it has come back to bite us because of long timing chains, cam phasers, and turbos. These things wear prematurely because of poor design of the components and the newer more "environmentally friendly" oils. If you don't believe it just fill an old flat tappet V8 with oil made for modern vehicles and take it to the drag strip. More than likely the cam will be ground flat and perhaps a connecting rod will be sticking out the side of the block by the end of the night.
This doesn't necessarily mean the new oils are horrible but they are made specifically for the application which includes satisfying the EPA. GM and others had huge issues in the mid 2000's when they tried to extend oil change intervals up to 15K miles to satisfy the EPA. Their new long timing chain and cam phaser engines were wearing out at alarming rates.
There is a new issue being noticed by BMW and others with the highest grades of synthetics, that is they are so thin and and light they are causing consumption and evaporation issues.
In line with what some have already said, earlier than scheduled oil changes may help prevent oiling issues being seen in modern engines and certainly won't hurt.
It is my understanding, which I hope someone can confirm, is that the 3.5L EcoBoost 2nd in the 17 and up Expys had upgrades to the timing chain guides and tensioners and added port injection to minimize carbon build up. Prior to that various people were recommending installing "catch cans" on these engines to mitigate carbon and timing chain wear issues.
 
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