is it better to go to ford dealer for repairs?

[lakmflx]

Originally posted by pronstar
Personally, you should consider buying your own code reader so you don't need to keep paying the $40 to your mechanic. I've seen them for as little as $70.

You can get aftermarket cats on e-bay for about $60 each, if that is in fact the problem.

That's correct. I was at Walmart yesterday just browsing through the auto department and i some code readers for $65 bucks. They were NOT the kind that tell you what the problem is but it did show you the code.

Yes cats can be had on eBay for around 60-90 bucks from what i've seen. Here is a quick search i ran http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford...ewItemQQcategoryZ33629QQitemZ8063894198QQrdZ1

 

[pronstar]

It pays for the mechanics to keep everyone in the dark.

A code reader is a simple device that plugs into the OBD service port of your car. Mine's under the dash, it's so easy to do:
1) plug in
2) read code
3) unplug

They have small stand-alone readers that are as small as a deck of cards (or smaller). These usually give the code number, then you look up what the code means.

Here's a list of Ford trouble codes:
http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/ford/

Other readers can connect to a laptop or palm pilot, then to your car. These will tell you a bit more info, like actually telling you in English what the code means. They can also look at various parameters of your car's electronics. I use AutoTap & a PC laptop, there are others as well. This is likely a lot more than you need.

One thing to keep in mind:
A code for MAF fault doesn't necessarily mean "replace the MAF". A code for a misfire may not mean "change all spark plugs" though this is often what a mechanic will do, rather than get to the root of the problem. Which is why replacing parts doesn't always work, and can get expensive in a hurry.

Often, the root cause can be a simple fix. IMHO some mechanics are just code-readers/part-replacers. But why pay someone big money to do this when you could easily do it yourself? But really, it's forums like these that can help you get to the root cause of a particular problem before you start replacing perfectly good parts.

 

[Sawyer]

okay pornstar what do you think of this....? I talked with the mechanic at automotive avenues in Denver and he said you always (underlined) have to put a FORD alternater in a ford. The engine light was coming on in his non-expert opinion because they were putting in a non-ford alernator. Basically when they put in the ford alternator, the engine light went out. I went back to check the invoice for some codes and there wasn't any? So now I have another call out to him for Monday. No, I am not taking it back there, I just can't believe they didn't run the diagnostics and said the alternater was not charging and even wanted to replace the PCM. Wouldn't codes tell you this? Also the labor charge was 95.90 an hour ; is this excessive?

 

[lakmflx]

$95 bucks an hour is a little excessive.. The going rate is around 55-65 bucks an hour. Now for the alternator... i dont think thats true. I upgraded my alternator to a powermaster alternator (200amp) and never got a check engine light.

 

[pronstar]

Personally, I think very few people repalce their alternators with a genuine Ford part. Most folks go to Pep Boys or Autozone and get one for $50.

I run an AutoZone remanufactured alternator and a Costco battery...Electrons are all the same.

Interesting that they "wanted" to change the PCM. Obviously they didn't, yet your truck still runs. A bad PCM = your truck won't run.

I'm not sure what an alternator code is. It would be helpful if they could provide the code number.

But at any rate, it's all water under the bridge. I wouldn't even bother wasting time with them anymore, and instead find a different mechanic.

In my personal opinion, you are unneccesarily helping to put this guy's kids thru college.

Spend some money on a service manual and a code reader, that would be money well-spent.

 

[DaveS1955]

I have an 03 EB with 119,000 miles. I have had the following problems/repairs since new.

One coil was replaced.
Window regulator replaced (twice). The first replacement broke and was replaced under the parts warranty.
IAC (Not sure this was required)
PCV valve and hose

And then there was the normal wear and tear items such as all filters replaced a few times, the serpentine belt was replace at 103K at my request.

Right now I am going through an idling problem which I hope the dealer has corrected.

As far as going to the dealer is concerned it depends on who you can trust in your area. Talk to a tow truck driver and find out which shops they tow cars from rather than tow them to and stay away from these places.

I have four Fords (T-Bird, Mustang, Expedition and Escape) and I use the dealer for reasons of record keeping and fleet management. Having them maintain four vehicles also provides some incentive to do a good job to keep the business. Recently my perferred dealer sould out to a conglomerate out of North Carolina and there service has sucked since. I am now going to another dealer that is a family run operation. Unfortunately where I live the dealer is the best gig in town unless I want to drive 35 - 50 miles to a quality shop.

500.00 per month in repairs is too much. I generally spend an average of 150.00 every six months for service related items (oil changes, filters etc...).

If you don't have one, get your hands on the service schedule. For some Expeditions certain services (e.g. Trans fluid change) are dependant on the part model number. In certain cases performing the service early (T-Bird diff fluid) may actually void the warranty on the part.

Later

 

[Sawyer]

Okay I got the code reader and it says P0430. I found out this is an 02 sensor problem on the bank 2. This is supposedly the exact same sensor the mechanic in Denver replaced on Feb 06. Could the sensor go bad again? I really don't want to take it back to Automotive Avenues, but these are the guys who originally replaced the cat in October and thus have the warranty...I don't think it should be going bad again. Is it okay to drive it? Seems the last time this happened I drove it two months then the engine started chugging, running rough and I had to have the plugs, coils, fuel filter replaced.

 

[pronstar]

Sensors don't typically go bad very often.

Here's the thing, though:
All emission-related components, including the cat, oxygen sensor, etc... are all covered by a Federal Emission warranty for 8-years/80,000 miles. So the Ford dealer should have replaced the cat and the O2 sensor at no charge to you.

How many miles are/were on your truck?

At the least, your mechanic should have advised you of this, if you were under 80,000 miles (unless he fixed it for free, which I doubt).

If it's warrantied thru them, though, then they should fix it for free.

Here's the text from your 2003 Emission Warranty booklet, page 12:
EMISSIONS PERFORMANCE WARRANTY COVERAGE
If your vehicle is registered in a state where the state or local government has
an EPA-approved inspection and maintenance program, you may also be eligible
for Emissions Performance Warranty Coverage for 2 years or 24,000 miles
(whichever occurs first), if you meet the conditions listed below in this section.
Under the Emissions Performance Warranty for passenger cars and light duty
trucks, Ford Motor Company also provides coverage, including labor and
diagnosis, for 8 years or 80,000 miles (whichever occurs first) for the following
emissions parts, if you meet the conditions listed below in this section.
• catalytic converter
• compuvalve
• electronic emissions control unit (PCM)
• onboard emissions diagnostic device
• vehicle communication link (VCL) module

 

[pronstar]

Page 13:
Under Emissions Performance Warranty Coverage, Ford Motor Company will
repair, replace, or adjust - with no charge for labor, diagnosis, or parts - any
emissions control device or system, if you meet all these conditions:
• You have maintained and operated your vehicle according to theinstructions on proper care in the Owner Guide, the Scheduled
Maintenance Guide, and this booklet.
• Your vehicle fails to conform, during the warranty coverage period of2 years or 24,000 miles (whichever occurs first), to the applicable
national EPA standards.
• You are subject to a penalty or sanction under local, state, or federallaw because your vehicle has failed to conform to the emissions
standards. (A penalty or sanction can include being denied the right
to use your vehicle.)
• Your vehicle has not been tampered with, misused, or abused.
The Emissions Performance Warranty will not apply to your vehicle if:
• the vehicle is tested at high altitude, but is certified to meet standardsonly at sea level.
• the diagnosis shows your vehicle will pass the applicable state or localgovernment test using test procedures and standards set by the EPA.
Note that the warranty period begins on the Warranty Start Date as
specified on page 2 of this booklet.
WHAT IS COVERED?
These parts are covered by both the Emissions Defect Warranty and the
Emissions Performance Warranty.
List of Parts Covered by Emissions Warranties
• Air Flow Sensor
• Air/Fuel Feedback Control System and Sensors
• Air Induction System
• Altitude Compensation System
• Catalytic Converter
• Cold Start Enrichment System
• Cold Start Fuel Injector (1)
• Compuvalve
• Controls for Deceleration
• Electronic Ignition System
• Exhaust Pipe (Manifold to Catalyst)
• Electronic Engine Control Sensors and Switches
• Evaporative Emission Control System
• Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System
• Exhaust Heat Control Valve
• Exhaust Manifold

 

[pronstar]

Page 14:
• Fuel Filler Cap and Neck Restrictor
• Fuel Injection System
• Fuel Injector Supply Manifold
• Fuel Sensor (1)
• Fuel Tank (non diesel only)
• Fuel Tank Pressure Control Valve (1)
• Idle Air Bypass Valve
• Ignition Coil and/or Control Module
• Intake Manifold
• Intercooler Assembly - Engine Charger
• Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL)/On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) System
• PCV System and Oil Filler Cap
• Powertrain Control Module
• Secondary Air Injection System
• Spark Control Components
• Spark Plugs and Ignition Wires
• Synchronizer Assembly
• Throttle Body Assembly (MFI)
• Turbocharger Assembly
• Vehicle Communication Link (VCL) Module
(1) Flex Fuel vehicle only
Important Information About List of Parts
Also covered by the two emissions warranties are all emissions-related
bulbs, hoses, clamps, brackets, tubes, gaskets, seals, belts, connectors,
non diesel fuel lines, and wiring harnesses that are used with
components on the list of parts, above.
Concerning parts that should be replaced on a certain maintenance
schedule: these parts remain under warranty until : (a) the first
replacement time that is specified in your Owner Guide and the
Scheduled Maintenance Guide; or (b) the time or mileage limits of
the Federal Defect and Performance Warranties (whichever occurs first).
Your Ford Motor Company dealer maintains a complete list of parts
covered by emissions warranties. For more details about the specific
parts covered by the Emissions Defect Warranty, contact your dealer.
WHAT IS NOT COVERED?
Ford Motor Company may deny you warranty coverage if your vehicle or
a part has failed because of abuse, neglect, improper maintenance,
unapproved modifications, or any items included in What Is Not
Covered?, pages 7-9.