Can I trust a 2015-2017 Expedition EL to be reliable AND to tow in Rockies?

[Rosko]

Hi all, I'm hoping I can gain some insight from others here that are towing TTs at high elevation (or maybe just towing a large TT), and just get some general feedback from everyone here that owns the 2015-2017 ecoboost ELs.

Where I tow:
I will almost always be towing the "ike guantlet". I just call it I-70 here, but it is very very hard on tow vehicles, just like the youtube channel says. Lots of 6-7% grades.
Towing Elevation: 4500ft - 12000ft almost all of the time.

Trailer:
2010 Rockwood 2901SS (33ft TT, 5670 dry weight).

My latest CAT scale weigh in with my 2004 GMC Yukon XL 2500 w/8.1L
Steer Weight: 3440 lb
Drive Weight: 5240 lb
Trailer Weight: 5920 lb
Gross Weight: 14600 lb

I'm a little leery to "upgrade" from my old 2004 GMC Yukon XL 2500 because it has 3/4 ton axles, a straight rear axle and springs, but the expedition is MUCH more comfortable for my kids (4 of them), and general day to day is a much better vehicle than the Yukon.

I'm looking at some fleet vehicles for sale here, We have quite a few of the 2015-2017 Expedition ELs for sale around the 31-34k price range, with about 50k miles on them (rentals). I'm looking at the limited trim.

My biggest concern is while looking at the Carfax on several of them, I see rear differential issues being serviced or replaced, and rear main seals being replaced on the ecoboost. I know the rear main seal was a problem with the F150s too....but holy cow, this is super low mileage. I just talked to a dealership to test drive a 2017, I had to wait 2 days to test drive it because it was getting a new......you guessed it, rear diff and new rear main seal. WTH? Initially I thought....nah it's just people complaining on the internet, only a small percentage have those issues...but then locally I've found at least 3 in the short amount of searching I have performed.

Are the 2015-2017 expeditions with the ecoboost really that unreliable and prone to this happening? So far I've seen 3 locally with the exact same pattern of problems and miles, and they likely aren't even being used as tow vehicles at all.

Any thoughts/help/experience are appreciated from current owners.

 

[shane_th_ee]

Do those rentals have the heavy duty towing package on them? You’ll need the 3.73 rear axle because that trailer is well over the 6000lb weight rating of the standard rear differential. And keep any eye on the payload and rear axle weight rating. Finally, you should try your question in the 3rd gen forum as this forum covers only the 2018 and on model years...

 

[B-McD]

Shane - He's in the right forum. You must have clicked on your old group!

 

[chuck s]

The only reason I own an Expedition is to tow our camper. I specifically selected the Expedition based on its ability to do so easily. This is the first I've heard of rampant rear differential problems with the Expedition.

2017 Expedition EL 4x4 with the HD Tow option has a GCWR of 15,300 pounds and a maximum trailer weight of 9,300 pounds. Same ratings for the standard 3.31 axle and optional 3.73. Looks like a lot more capacity than your current truck. The trailer brake/stability on the 2017 is plug-and-play for your Rockwood.

The 3.5 EcoBoost develops more power as octane increases. Here in the little mountains I just run the same 87 octane I run every day even when towing my 5000+ pound trailer. Our mountains peak about where yours start though. Power decreases with altitude but the mechanical parts are not affected.

I know you're looking at used. The 2018 Expedition has a nine (9) speed transmission which may make it more suitable for mountain towing. I imagine these will hit the used market in a few months. Ya still need the factory HD tow option.

-- Chuck

 

[coolzzy]

I tow in the pacific northwest with my 17 EL, and my trailer weight is 6200 gross weight. I just towed up to 7200ft this weekend, from a starting elevation of 2300 without issue. This motor has tons of power and climbs hills like they were flat land. I have twice had an issue where the truck will say the engine coolant is overheating on a long steep grade in very hot weather (going to Yellowstone), but backing off on the throttle for 2 seconds returned the guage to normal so I think it was just a sensor fluke. If you'll be towing heavy at altitude, make sure you get a powertrain warranty or buy certified pre owned and do regular oil changes. A transmission fluid change every season (done at a Ford dealer of course) will look good on your maintence and carfax records too. You can get a 17 XLT EL with the 202a package (HD tow, nav, heated and cooled leather, remote start, power lift gate) for thar same price but only 30k ish miles. You only lose out on power running boards , 20" wheels and some chrome, but gain payload cause the XLT isn't as heavy.

 

[Rosko]

Thanks guys.

I ended up picking up a 2017 limited that has a 2yr/100k miles powertrain warranty. We'll see how it goes, so far so good.

In my test drives with the camper with some winds on the interstate, it wiggles a lot more than my 3/4 ton Yukon XL, but I expected that with the IRS. It has more power though, and stops a lot better with the grade shifting and better brakes. I'll take it up the Ike here soon and give it a real test .

 

[chuck s]

Rig setup looks good. Some additional air pressure in the rear tires tend to take some wiggle out for me. I run 40 psi so stiffen the radial side wall a bit.

-- Chuck

 

[bobmbx]

Thanks guys.

I ended up picking up a 2017 limited that has a 2yr/100k miles powertrain warranty. We'll see how it goes, so far so good.

In my test drives with the camper with some winds on the interstate, it wiggles a lot more than my 3/4 ton Yukon XL, but I expected that with the IRS. It has more power though, and stops a lot better with the grade shifting and better brakes. I'll take it up the Ike here soon and give it a real test .

Are you using a WDH?

 

[chuck s]

There appears to be a Equalizer (brand) WDH in his photo. My eyes aren't good enough to see which one.

-- Chuck

 

[Rosko]

Are you using a WDH?

Yes...as Chuck said I'm using the Equalizer (4 point) with 1200lb bars.

 

[shinysideup2]

Thanks guys.

I ended up picking up a 2017 limited that has a 2yr/100k miles powertrain warranty. We'll see how it goes, so far so good.

In my test drives with the camper with some winds on the interstate, it wiggles a lot more than my 3/4 ton Yukon XL, but I expected that with the IRS. It has more power though, and stops a lot better with the grade shifting and better brakes. I'll take it up the Ike here soon and give it a real test .

Congrats Rosko! Setup looks great. Thanks for all the details about your situation. I bought a 2017 EL Limited 4x4 a couple months ago with about 48k miles (prior rental), Certified Pre-Owned (CPO). The 3.73 LSD and extra space were important to us. We're only towing about 3500 lbs for now (Rpod Travel Trailer) up a few 7-8% mountain roads in California. I'm curious to hear how your towing and ownership experience play out being that you tow 6k lbs up the Ike Gauntlet on a regular basis. You have an interesting powertrain warranty (2 yr/100k miles?) - short term for so many miles. Is it a CPO? If so, the warranty should be 7 yrs (from date of first sale) / 100k miles.

I think you'll enjoy the EL, but I am curious (and concerned) about the issues you've been seeing with rear ends. I hadn't noticed that pattern when I was shopping around. BTW, Gas mileage has been pretty bad - I can't seem to beat 12.5 around town. 16 on highways. 33" tires and roof rack probably don't help, but still... I had hoped it would do better. 13-14 mpg towing 3500 lbs on flat interstate is not bad though...

Enjoy!

Jay.

 

[Rosko]

Congrats Rosko! Setup looks great. Thanks for all the details about your situation. I bought a 2017 EL Limited 4x4 a couple months ago with about 48k miles (prior rental), Certified Pre-Owned (CPO). The 3.73 LSD and extra space were important to us. We're only towing about 3500 lbs for now (Rpod Travel Trailer) up a few 7-8% mountain roads in California. I'm curious to hear how your towing and ownership experience play out being that you tow 6k lbs up the Ike Gauntlet on a regular basis. You have an interesting powertrain warranty (2 yr/100k miles?) - short term for so many miles. Is it a CPO? If so, the warranty should be 7 yrs (from date of first sale) / 100k miles.

I think you'll enjoy the EL, but I am curious (and concerned) about the issues you've been seeing with rear ends. I hadn't noticed that pattern when I was shopping around. BTW, Gas mileage has been pretty bad - I can't seem to beat 12.5 around town. 16 on highways. 33" tires and roof rack probably don't help, but still... I had hoped it would do better. 13-14 mpg towing 3500 lbs on flat interstate is not bad though...

Enjoy!

Jay.

Thanks Jay, yes the warranty is weird. I bought it from a large dodge dealer here, it's not CPO, they just gave it a 2yr/100k powertrain as an additional perk to try to sell it. All of the other expeditions here in Colorado had no warranty unless they were still under the manufacturer warranty, but most had mileage too high for that anyway.

In my short tests with the trailer it seems to tow it well, but I've only tested around 5000ft elevation so far. I'll post back once I know how it does up the real passes.

I knew the gas mileage would be fairly bad (I never bought in to the eco thing)...and especially bad towing, but compared to my 8.1L vortec it's still a little bit better overall LOL. My last mileage test was coming from colorado springs to north of Denver, mostly rolling hills/interstate, I got around 19.7 mpg (hand calc) varying speeds from 45mph to 80mph.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Do those rentals have the heavy duty towing package on them? You’ll need the 3.73 rear axle because that trailer is well over the 6000lb weight rating of the standard rear differential.

You missed what I feel are the 2 most important parts of the HD Trailer Tow option: HD Radiator and Auxiliary Transmission Cooler. Both of these can be easily added.

If you were NOT towing in the Rockies, I would say skip the axle ratio upgrade, but, you will need it especially on those long grades !

 

[Rosko]

You missed what I feel are the 2 most important parts of the HD Trailer Tow option: HD Radiator and Auxiliary Transmission Cooler. Both of these can be easily added.

If you were NOT towing in the Rockies, I would say skip the axle ratio upgrade, but, you will need it especially on those long grades !

Don't all ELs have the 3.73? That used to be the case anyway.

All EL/Max have the 3.73 ratio (I thought).
All Limited edition and higher have the HD tow package with 7-pin/larger radiator and aux transmission cooler.
You can get the HD tow package in some XLTs, but generally when they come from the rental/fleet they don't have it.

 

[shinysideup2]

Don't all ELs have the 3.73? That used to be the case anyway.

Best way to determine for sure which gears you have is to check the door sticker inside the driver's door jamb. Axle code 3L = 3.73 LSD.

There are also useful:
https://www.ford.com/services/assets/Brochure?make=Ford&model=Expedition&year=2017
https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/conten...df/brochures/17RV&TT_Ford_Expedition_Sep7.pdf

Page 11 of the brochure, unfortunately, indicates that only 4x4 EL's come standard with the 3.73 LSD. Otherwise, I believe you get 3.31 (EL 4x2, non-EL 4x4) or 3.15 (non-EL 4x2), with 3.73 being an option.

This article is also handy for decoding Ford axle codes...
http://www.blueovaltrucks.com/tech-...y-your-ford-truck-axle-from-the-door-sticker/

 

[Rosko]

Best way to determine for sure which gears you have is to check the door sticker inside the driver's door jamb. Axle code 3L = 3.73 LSD.

There are also useful:
https://www.ford.com/services/assets/Brochure?make=Ford&model=Expedition&year=2017
https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/conten...df/brochures/17RV&TT_Ford_Expedition_Sep7.pdf

Page 11 of the brochure, unfortunately, indicates that only 4x4 EL's come standard with the 3.73 LSD. Otherwise, I believe you get 3.31 (EL 4x2, non-EL 4x4) or 3.15 (non-EL 4x2), with 3.73 being an option.

Sounds good...I have the 4x4 (that's about all the sell in Colorado anyway). I think I forgot about that being a modifier.

 

[rollinstone]

I tow all over the Northwest including the Cascades and Rockies. 2014 standard Expy with HD tow package, 3.73 rear end. Tows really well after 3+ years.

That said, I can't claim that she takes 5%-6% uphill grades with ease like an F/A-18. I usually throttle back to about 2400 RPM and take what I get speed-wise, which is usually no less than 45 mph. Sure, I can go faster, but that means a screaming 3500-4000 RPM with a big sucking sound from the gas tank. Why? YMMV...literally. Just finished a 3100 mile trip from Seattle to South Dakota and back, so logged some significant altitude gains. Ran 12 mpg overall...which is what I get driving around town.

 

[CaptOchs]

I chatted with a guy on the Keystone's Facebook page on what he pulled with his ecoboost Expedition. Get this, he has a 2015 he has a 35ft 7200lb camper. He said stock it worked well, but he did a few upgrades to better performance.

Livernoise tuner: Adds 80hp over stock in sport mode or 80 ft lbs of torque in tow mode.
Airraid CAI
Magnaflow Exhaust.
Reese Trunion 1200# bars with a Drawtite friction sway control.

Maybe something to keep in mind. You can always better performance with tuners, CAI, and exhaust upgrades.

 

[MidwestBoater]

Congrats on the purchase. We just returned from another 560 mile round trip through the rolling hills southern Missouri and northern Arkansas towing our 21' Tritoon (27' with the trailer), with 2 adults, 3 teenagers, and an 85lb Lab in our 2016 Expedition XLT. We don't have the EL (really wish we did), but the luggage fits nicely in the boat under the cover. We usually get about 9mpg for that trip but this time I found some ethanol free fuel that netted us an extra 1mpg. I run an SCT tuner with the 89 octane 5 Star tune, which make a pretty big difference in power delivery, shift schedule, and engine braking. When not towing I run 89 octane and average 20-21mpg (mostly highway), when towing I run 91-93 octane.

 

[MattyMMA]

I think you will find the biggest thing to help with the wiggle is better tires. Your 2500XL was most likely using D or E range tires, you have p metric standard on the EL. I went with P Extra Load tires which helped some, their ratings were better than D rated tires. But you need to stiffen the side wall to eliminate the shimmy.

I also upgraded to a Blue Ox hitch, and it helped as well.

The one last thing is i actually put a little water in the gray tank to squat the suspension and the trailer settles down. What we do is as we are packing we till the tub up once, then drain it. Not a bunch of weight but it seems to make a difference.