front bench possible? need 9 seats

[TobyU]

I completely disagree about the safety aspect, but I did want to raise a point about deletion being cheaper.

While it may seem obvious, it could also be more expensive for the manufacturer. For example, it might seem that removing a headrest would save costs right? No headrest, money can be saved not buying one.

Except that these are bought in bulk, and are therefore cheaper than buying individually. By having so many options of deletion/addition, it may incur an extra cost for any excess that needs to be disposed of.

Of course, the extras may be put on another model that asks for it or they may need to store it. If not used then and there, then it could be sold to people who already own the particular vehicle in question that are looking for replacements (or an aftermarket supplier or dealer that stockpiles parts etc). However, that would mean it needs to be stored, whether that be on site or, if off site then transported to said location. These parts also need to be maintained in a saleable condition - some may not require supervision or preparation before sale, others may require a great deal. The site where they are stored also has to be secured and all inventory within organised.

That is not a simple job, and the above requires quite a bit of peoplepower. All of whom (packers/movers/drivers/organisers/managers/HR/security etc etc) have to be paid.

That is what they always say but I think it's just old school cop out. With technology today it shouldn't cost more to institute and apply the change.
We're not talking about lowering the bulk amount enough to change any discount rate for quantities. Would't be but 10-20 max people would delete as most people buying new cars like lots of items...so it would just be reduced cost of fewer items.

I think most of it is just that they went this way in the 80s with option packages all coming in a set and they are set in their ways and just don't want to change the way it is done.

 

[TobyU]

If you are making the decision to put yourself at an increased risk, I would agree with you. The reality is that GM chooses to not include them for cost savings. Families buy their vehicles without realizing the importance of head restraints and then most often it is the kids paying the price. Whiplash is rarely fatal but it can be debilitatingly life altering. Kids don’t have the needed information nor the ability to choose a vehicle with head restraints in every position. Having removable head restraints included as standard practice is the best case scenario to provide protection to the most vulnerable.

Non-removable head restraints, especially ones that lean forward can cause many kids’ car seats and booster seats to not install/function properly. Removable/adjustable head restraints are a high priority for me. I can live with the Expy’s non-removable outboard 3rd row head restraints since since the center one and all of the 2nd row ones can come off.

I know people like to complain about all the “unneeded” safety features and government mandates, but many of those things save lives.

I work in the field of child passenger safety. I hear it all the time, “Back when I was young... and we survived just fine.” The truth is that car crashes are still the number one cause of death for kids ages 1-13, but amazingly the number of child passenger deaths has declined by almost 60% since 1975. There are kids and young adults alive today that otherwise would not have been if not for those mandates. The ones from back when you were young that didn’t make it aren’t here to speak up against the “we survived” mentality.

And if those people wouldn't have made it, the country wouldn't be so damn overpopulated....
Always different ways to look at the same thing or numbers.

I think also another reason they get by with it more is that usually the center position is younger children and they are shorter to where the seat is a headrest.
You still have the whiplash and forward motion from not having a shoulder belt but better than a tall person with no headrest.
Remember in the 80s the big deal about pickup trucks esp mini trucsk with no headrests and peoples' heads going through the window and even hitting the metal bottom frame on rear collisions. Dangerous...

 

[Tbaker]

I love my 9 passenger 1997 4wd Expedition. I take out the rear seat when I go camping and the entire Family of 6 fits in the front and center seats.

 

[aporthole]

And if those people wouldn't have made it, the country wouldn't be so damn overpopulated....

Oh wow, that is so incredibly insensitive and ignorant to say. There are very likely people here who have lost a parent, sibling, aunt/uncle, child in a crash that isn’t here today.

If you wouldn’t say it to someone face to face, it isn’t wise to say it online. True character is shown when no one is watching. Too many people view the internet as anonymous and without accountability.

 

[TobyU]

Oh wow, that is so incredibly insensitive and ignorant to say. There are very likely people here who have lost a parent, sibling, aunt/uncle, child in a crash that isn’t here today.

If you wouldn’t say it to someone face to face, it isn’t wise to say it online. True character is shown when no one is watching. Too many people view the internet as anonymous and without accountability.

I will certainly say anything in person I will say online of about someone or when they are not there. Do double standard or keyboard warrior here, just opinionated and often judgmental. I'm not going to not state opinions or other oddities I might think about for fear of hurting someones feelings when I have no reason to think they might be upset.
That would be eggshells on every topic in life!
I think about jokes people tell about tragedies. Rude and distasteful but very prevalent.
Remember the first space shuttle crash. I was in middle or high school and there were jokes by the end of the week! Would have been very mean to someone who was close to one of the astronauts but still the jokes were everywhere. Funny, I head no jokes the 2nd time. You think society is less crude or my crowd was not juvenile teens???

You referenced "kids and young adults" generic numbers of the population that I have no connection with and I do not know. Most sensitivity is lost when most people speak of generic members of population. Notice I say "most". There are some people that act compassionate about people they don't know too.

One of this things in life that doesn't really hit home or matter or you thing it will never happen to you until it does or until it happens to someone you know.
Homelessness is a decent example. Some people care about them. Some don't care at all if they survive or not. Some soften their opinions if someone they know ends up living on the street or in shelters.

So i don't thing ignorant is accurate for my statement (unless you are simply saying I am ignorant of the identities of the people who may have....) but that's not a valid criticism and ignorant is almost always used to criticize or demean others. I couldn't possibly be aware of nameless general members of population over many years that you reference.
I'm sure you and I both are "ignorant" of brain surgery processes.
But that doesn't make us wrong, dumb, or mean...

Insensitive....could be perceived that way. People say to turn turn the caravan that was coming here or other immigrants away...some said by force...I even heard drone strike used once or twice.
Highly insensitive but generic people that others don't know is different for most than if they had a connection....other than being human beings.
People (those ones I mentioned earlier) like to use this idea or feeling that should connect all people, but it simply doesn't for many if not most.

I would never be rude to someone AFTER I knew of a situation where they lost someone but I'm not going to restrain my comments before just in case.

Smoking comes to mind. There are people that say terrible things about smokers like they deserve lung cancer, emphysema etc. They are talking about people they don't know.
They most likely wouldn't say things around someone who had the disease or was related to someone who did.
Just an observation of how things happen a lot.

People have to die every day. I have said this for years. I hope it's not me, a family member or friend, but if it is....that is life. We have a population problem in my opinion so I say it would not be as much an issue if some people didn't make it from various things.
Morbid but true.
There are even people out there that think there are conspiracies for population control.
If so....they are not having much effect.

 

[Trainmaster]

"Population problem"? Do the math.

You can fit the world's population in the state of Texas. In two family homes on 40 x 100 lots, four people to an apartment.

You are being fed a load of nonsense by people who want to control you. Use your brain.

 

[TobyU]

"Population problem"? Do the math.

You can fit the world's population in the state of Texas. In two family homes on 40 x 100 lots, four people to an apartment.

You are being fed a load of nonsense by people who want to control you. Use your brain.

Apartments shouldn't exist.
40x100 is about the smallest lots I've ever seen. I have seen cities with lots of 40x80 and its terrible.
In this same city they no longer allow building on anything less than 60 wide.
One of the very few zoning laws I agree with.

I would hate to see the congestion at that density if we were all in TX like that.

I'm by no means a country boy...never really rode a horse, but I am a suburban person.
Wouldn't live in a downtown or big city if you paid me.
I think all lots should be at least 1/2 acre. 1/3 is pushing it a lot for me.
Everyone should have a yard to mow, a garage and hopefully a detached big one in the back yard, a 10x13 shed, and at least 3-4 cars at the house and plenty of driveway to park them.
Hopefully a small boat 14-18 ft, a couple of motorcycles and of 4 wheelers.

All my preference of course. Not saying people are wrong to do otherwise, just that I would not.

I find when cities get to be over 40-45K they get too congested for my liking.
Hard to put real numbers like this on it because some areas 90k seems less people than other places with 40K.
A lot has to do with area, infrastructure, time and way the area was developed, main places people work, etc.

 

[TobyU]

OMG....just noticed you said the WORLDS POPULATION....IN TWO family homes on the 400x100 lots...NO WAY IN HELL. That would be a nightmare!!!

 

[Plati]

After driving around this country a fair amount, there are a few things that stand out to me. First off .. We have a lot of water resources. Clean water. Also, land resources. An incredible amount of useful and in many cases unused land. Forests and mountains and farmland and all kinds. The transportation system is amazing. Great interstates (thanks Eisenhower) well equipped with bridges and all amenities. Trucks are everywhere carrying the goods of commerce. Impressive. Most if not all of the personal transportation vehicles are in great shape. Airline transportation is built out and easily accessed. Every state is full of recreational opportunities and scenic places. The communication system is well developed with cellular ... Internet ... Radio ... Etc. I see a lot of successful businesses of all sizes most places I go. Fuel of many types is readily available anywhere you want for whatever purpose can be imagined. Food is amazing ... From growers to the distribution system to restaurants. The electrical grid (currently in need of modernization) is reliable and functioning. I could go on and on.

Compare this to any other country in the world?
No comparison.

Rant over !

 

[TobyU]

One thing that stands out it is the unused land. We are all grouped together in urban and the fairly close by surrounding suburban areas.

 

[Plati]

One thing that stands out it is the unused land. We are all grouped together in urban and the fairly close by surrounding suburban areas.

Dude ... I've been to Alaska several times. Had a girlfriend who lived there so I know Alaska from the resident side. Have you considered moving there? I think you'd like it. Its not all a frozen ice cube either and with your skills, you would find work that they need. Just tossin that out there.

 

[Aargm]

Do you have any rough draft ideas you e thought of yet for moving it?

thanks for commenting. Yes, like @Flexpedition suggests in his comment, I would find one with the gear selector attached to the steering column. Remove center console, and replace with F150 middle jumpseat.

 

[Aargm]

It was offered stock in early years, as a 9-passenger option

Seat can be transplanted to newer years if you find the jumpseat (need SSV for the column shifter), or you can jury rig an F150 jumpseat (i think someone said it needed a bracket fabricated? Or maybe that was for a console)

Definitely need to purchase column shifter. The F150 seat looks like it should fit. Hard to find actual dimensions / specs. Have you ever seen it done?

 

[Aargm]

Below is a link to a slightly used 2018 MAX 4X4 XL model with column shift and front buckets. Just as an example, for OP to study its interior photos. Note that this particular MAX doesn't have a 3rd row seat.

https://www.raisorford.com/used/Ford/2018-Ford-Expedition+Max-0ea28ad80a0e0adf3382d374187c5a39.htm

Compare the above Expedition front seats to a 18+ f150 XL and you will see they are the same. Example used F150 dealer ad:

https://www.fermanauto.com/VehicleDetails/used-2018-Ford-F_150-XL_2WD_SuperCab_6.5'_Box-Tampa-FL/3388852303


You'll notice that not only are the front bucket seats appear identical between the Expedition and F150, but so does the floor mounted mini console with cupholders. I'd be fairly confident that adding the F150 XL and XLT center jumpseat into an 18+ Expedition XL would be no issue.

Given the electronics, such as occupant sensors, seat position sensors, airbags, etc, you'll be hard pressed to find anyone to remove one or more front seats and install anything out of a something-else.

Hope this helps

This was super helpful. Wasn't aware These were out there with column shifters. Now i have a much better idea about what to look for. Thanks!

 

[RhinoQuartz]

This was super helpful. Wasn't aware These were out there with column shifters. Now i have a much better idea about what to look for. Thanks!

The ones with column shifters are sold as Fleet vehicles only (at least initially). Known as XL, they are below even the XLT trim level. Usually used for emergency responders (police, fire etc).

There may be dimensions in the fleet order guide. You might be able to find one on blueovalforums.com - it's filled with Ford employees and lots of great info on there.

 

[Trainmaster]

For the record, here's the split bench seat in a 2008 - the last year offered in an Expedition, only in the XLT in black, gray and camel cloth. Only a couple of dozen sold, mostly to the Forest Service. Entirely different seat than the F150. A dash trim piece differs from the console trim and affords a pull-out pop-up cup holder. Bet these are the only pictures you'll ever find.

 

[TobyU]

For the record, here's the split bench seat in a 2008 - the last year offered in an Expedition, only in the XLT in black, gray and camel cloth. Only a couple of dozen sold, mostly to the Forest Service. Entirely different seat than the F150. A dash trim piece differs from the console trim and affords a pull-out pop-up cup holder. Bet these are the only pictures you'll ever find.

THAT'S what they need to offer! This is what I always complain about. They need to give us options!!
This is just like a Town Car and I would choose it every time over the console. It does need the armrest to open up like most.
Why did all manufacturers decide when they made a truck into an SUV to change the seat? They thought it holds more people so you don't need the front center.... But the only thing most people use it for is armrest. I couldn't tell your whats in any of mine and we have 5 SUVs at our house.
They should have each at the dealer and you should check the box when you order it.

 

[Dorzak]

This thread shows one that was a column shift and had an F150 seat put in middle - thread started about a 2016 but not clear what year the swap shown is. https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/2016-expedition-el-xl-fleet-front-jump-seat.38652/

Also at one point I read that some of the Sync 3 / GPS or other computer items are in the center console with the shifter. The controls for back seat control of audio and heat are also in the console. SSV often ships with no radio and no automatic heat. Heat is manual control and departments that buy them usually put in their own radio/laptop mounts.

Having kids, I am glad they are old enough to know not to mess with the radio. Otherwise those controls would get annoying and if you need 9 seats you may have some young enough to not know better anyways.

 

[Mad Oshea]

The second seat is the same as the front. Lose The console and air bag thing. The belts will be the same as the back. My air bags are gone, due to how bad they hurt folks. And the size of My truck.

 

[Therabbittree]

I was speccing a 2020 xl ssv myself. It was gonna be hard to get it as it need a fleet . I wanted to do the same. Add the f150 jumpseat. F250 jump my fit i have extras of those. Column shift would be awesome! The rotary switch sucks. The vinyl floors on Ssv would be nice too. Best price i could find was 52k new order. Put deposit on new 19 xlt max with tow. In mid 40’s. So gonna go that route. Still thinking of column shift swap and seat jumpseat mod. I think the f50 and expedition airbags insash are same with jump seat or console. So safety should be the same.
Thanks,
Deo