5.4L Triton timing set, replace oil pump?

[JExpedition07]

My 5.4 3V is getting the startup rattle. I’m planning on ordering new OEM camphasers, chains, guides, tensioners and cleaning out the oil pan plus pickup. Is there any real need to replace the oem oil pump? I’m not seeing it as very important since my primary oil loss is coming from the leaky tensioner and not the pump.

My 5.4 does not knock or tick, it does not make any noise from under the valve covers and runs good and quiet. However lately if it sits overnight or for hours on end for about 1 second it will make noise and stop upon startup. I watched Makulocos video and he says not to ignore this long term as it means a tensioner gasket is failing.

 

[JExpedition07]

Does a kit like this have everything I need? Back at college full time so more financially restricted than off times where these blows don’t hurt as bad. Would like to keep repairs around $850, I have access to any tools I’ll need.

https://www.freedomracing.com/5-4l-...c8WDy4pstzzjZYhOEqjpSOAeznpdRM1xoCVgMQAvD_BwE

 

[762mm]

Theoretically, if you have no tick and only a startup rattle, all you should need is new hydraulic tensioners. Maybe the chain guides too, while you're in there.

Fords have been having the tensioner and chain guides issue for a long time. My 99 Explorer (4.0 SOHC) had the same damn issue and I recently learned that my 2014 Expedition also has it - albeit no symptoms YET. Makes you wonder what kind of monkeys they have working in their engineering department, lol....

Out of curiosity, what's the mileage on yours?

 

[JExpedition07]

Theoretically, if you have no tick and only a startup rattle, all you should need is new hydraulic tensioners. Maybe the chain guides too, while you're in there.

Fords have been having the tensioner and chain guides issue for a long time. My 99 Explorer (4.0 SOHC) had the same damn issue and I recently learned that my 2014 Expedition also has it - albeit no symptoms YET. Makes you wonder what kind of monkeys they have working in their engineering department, lol....

Out of curiosity, what's the mileage on yours?

150,000, and I hear you there. Lots of new EcoBoosts in the 4th gen section with the startup rattle. Ford calls it normal.

 

[Cyclone]

The Melling High Volume Oil pump is highly recommended for this engine, especially if you already have the front of the engine already off, its a nobrainer on replacing it so easily.

 

[JExpedition07]

I think I will get an oil pressure reading to determine the condition of my original pump. The OEM Kit jumps from $800 to $1,200 with the oil pump kit included.

 

[JExpedition07]

I suppose the other option is wait until I can spend over a grand on the engine and do it all. Right now if I pull it apart I can do the whole timing set in the front end but that’s about it. Likely wouldn’t be doing oil pump or anything under the valve covers. The gasket leak must be slow, because if the truck sits an hour or so it has no rattle. Just if it sits a long time.

 

[Cyclone]

I also watch those FordTechMakeULoco videos. He pretty says that many of these problems were due to the original Oil Pump just not being up to the task. That is why Melling developed the High Volume pump. He goes on to say that this is highly recommended. I don't have video linked, but I'm sure you've dug through much of what he covered with the playlist.

I don't have a 3v, but if I did, I'd certainly replace that pump if I was already opening up the engine.

 

[Trainmaster]

You know the laws of engineering supersede the laws of economics. The question is whether the oil pump is bad or not. If it's bad and you don't change it, you're screwed. But it's probably not bad. I think most people change them on the small chance it is and for added protection of the improved pump and the hope they'll never, ever have to go in there again.

Your plan's a good one. Check the oil pressure. Since money's a big consideration here, you can leave the old one in if it's okay. You you had the bucks, you'd change it. Or deliver pizzas at night to make the $400 for a pump and sleep better.

 

[JExpedition07]

That sounds like the plan of attack. I do remodeling/renovation for work so no interest in delivering pizzas at night lol. You just feel it cutting back from summer hours to part time. Had I not bought a boat last month I wouldn’t even be considering skimping on the pump. You know what Boat stands for....Think I’ll check oil pressure and see what I find. It’s not pressing either so if I need to wait and beat the chain guides to death in the process so be it.

 

[babycakes311]

Compare this one on amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Ford-Camshaf...dt-20&linkId=15610d5b655dac465cf5d2ef83c40d68

Looks like the same as the freedom racing kit you linked except for the crank position wheel unless I'm missing something else. $60 cheaper and free shipping. I can't imagine your crank position wheel would need replacing if you are just getting the startup rattle.

I'm pretty sure there are a few other things that are not in these kits. Like the VCT solenoids, crank pulley bolt, maybe valve cover gaskets?

My opinion on the oil pump would be to replace it. Especially if you plan to keep the Expedition long term. Very easy to replace when you are doing everything else.

 

[Trainmaster]

It's a lot of work. Next springtime sounds good.

 

[Boose]

I second the mellings replacement pump... I did this whole project on my 05 a few years before I traded her in. The factory oil pump is proven to flex under load and bleed off oil pressure between the casing and the back plate. It's a little tedious but you can get it off without dropping the pan. your oil pressure readings will likely read ok... I took the "while I'm in there" approach and changed it for peace of mind.

It's a good weekend job. Teardown on Friday after work, begin assembly Saturday morning and work till your shot. finish it up on Sunday. It's a VERY gratifying job to do when you hit the key and hear nothing but exhaust and injectors... good luck and please feel free to ask away!

 

[762mm]

150,000, and I hear you there. Lots of new EcoBoosts in the 4th gen section with the startup rattle. Ford calls it normal.

In the 2nd generation section of the Explorer Forum the guys used to call it the "Rattle-o-Death", lol!

It's amazing our Fords still have these issues when some other manufacturers have figured that stuff out decades ago. Calling it "normal" is like saying "cigarettes are healthy" back in the 1950's... it's normal until the engine grenades, 99% of the time past the warranty period!




For anyone who's tensioners are not acting up yet (no rattle), I guess using high mileage oil would be a good idea in order to swell those tensioner seals a little bit and prevent them from cracking open and losing pressure when engine is off. If the seal is already shot, it's timing job time...

 

[max78]

Another vote for the melling pump.

The original pump has an aluminum back plate that flexes above 2000rpm and bleeds oil pressure at like 2200 rpm and it only get worse from there.

The melling has a cast plate and doesn't bleed any oil till about 5500rpm.

I was shocked by how much fluid bypassed the stock pump, and I'm sure it was never intended but still worked and said roll with it.

Get the better pump

The other thing is, I'm all for original parts forna lot of things, cam phasers and vct solenoid absolutely. But I went with the melling timing set with cast iron ratcheting tensioner to make sure I never have to open it back up. From what I hear the factory parts have been improved with a recessed seal rather than the gasket that blows out (which is more likely your issue), but it's still a plastic non ratcheting tensioner.

 

[JExpedition07]

In the 2nd generation section of the Explorer Forum the guys used to call it the "Rattle-o-Death", lol!

It's amazing our Fords still have these issues when some other manufacturers have figured that stuff out decades ago. Calling it "normal" is like saying "cigarettes are healthy" back in the 1950's... it's normal until the engine grenades, 99% of the time past the warranty period!




For anyone who's tensioners are not acting up yet (no rattle), I guess using high mileage oil would be a good idea in order to swell those tensioner seals a little bit and prevent them from cracking open and losing pressure when engine is off. If the seal is already shot, it's timing job time...

It’s totally random too. This morning I had no rattle on startup and sometimes it does. I have an ear for this stuff so after I heard it twice I got concerned, most people probably wouldn’t even notice. It’s only audible with the window/door open.

 

[762mm]

It’s totally random too. This morning I had no rattle on startup and sometimes it does. I have an ear for this stuff so after I heard it twice I got concerned, most people probably wouldn’t even notice. It’s only audible with the window/door open.

This means it's probably only starting to go (tensioner seal). Maybe try 5W30 synthetic high mileage oil first? It could delay the repair a fair bit, perhaps.

 

[JExpedition07]

I just changed the oil this week with the usual 5W-30 Motorcraft and filter. I’d rather not use high mileage as it will swell seals elsewhere too. If you YouTube or google Ford startup rattle you will get a plethora of all the motors in a variety of vehicles. It seems they use (still) these plastic hydraulic failure prone tensioners in the overhead cam engines. I guess they work properly 95% of the time and are cost effective so they stay. It’s a case of the bean counter vs engineering.

 

[762mm]

Meh, I'm not really worried about high mileage oil having adverse effects. It doesn't really swell up the seals per se, it basically rejuvenates them and makes them more pliable and soft (because they harden and start leaking with age or severe use). 150,000 miles is definitely "high mileage" and hard seals are probably the source of your problem.

I've owned my recently sold 99 Explorer for 16 years and been using high mileage synthetic in it for the last 10 years as of 90,000 miles, on and off (depending on what good brand synthetic oil was on sale). It never leaked 1 drop of oil. I don't believe the myth that going back to regular oil for 1 or 2 changes will turn your engine into a sieve either, from personal experience. High mileage oil just keeps seals more in shape in an old engine, is my guess.


As I said, I'm not worried and my Expedition currently has a mix of high mileage and regular synthetic (matching 7 quarts of oil is a b*tch when you have different types of same grade oil lying around the garage, lol!). Next oil change it will get a diet of 100% high mileage variety, always synthetic... either Pennzoil, Mobil 1 or Castrol - in that order.

Finally, Motorcraft oil and filters are probably not the best in the long term. The filter, compared to premium synthetic fluid filters (Wix, Fram), is definitely on the el-cheapo side... I've recently bought 2 of them and they look like regular (non-synthetic) oil filters, plus their particle filtering rating is not high, to say the least. Actually, it's pretty much piss poor, lol! Made to have the truck only last the warranty is my guess...

(I'll probably never actually put them on the truck and they'll remain my "emergency oil filters")

 

[762mm]

Case in point about stock Ford oil filters vs higher end aftermarket :