5.4L Triton timing set, replace oil pump?

[Trainmaster]

Why hasn't anyone done real comparison testing on oil filters? The Internet's full of crap information about this vs. that but nowhere can I find true quantitative apple to apple data about filtering efficiency. Look at Fram's claim above. WTH does "99%+ filtration efficiency mean?" That it catches 99% of small flies?

 

[jeff kushner]

JE....buddy, it honestly sounds to me like you might be jumping the gun. I know you like your track aces, but what about a bottle of Lucas and let God sort it out for now? The sound will stop, even after oil changes unless you really need to deal with something, then it will tell you so.

Just an idea.....

jeff

Train, you starting another oil/filter thread? OMG, take cover guys........lol

 

[Boose]

FWIW, I did my timing job at 96,000 as I knew what was coming if I waited... The Expedition is my wife's daily driver and we use it to transport my medically fragile son. As I need to count on it with 100% reliability, it helped me in deciding to fix it earlier rather then later. That and I was sick of it sounding like a diesel when it was hot. You're definitely going about it the right way. Change it all, take your time with it and enjoy the silence.

 

[BlackCoffee]

I just got through my second rebuild at 260K. Summit has the Melling High Volume oil pump for around $140. The 5.4 has a tendency to starve the PX side bank. I would replace the oil pump. Oil pressure and volume with be the thing that keeps the engine in good shape. You are this far into it and spending $140 on a good oil pump will pay dividends in the long run. You don't see the wear that is inside the pump, but at 150K you are down on pressure from the factory build. Low oil pressure will take out your cams. When you have the valve cover's off, check the cam lobes. If they small black lines around the lobe, your pressure is down.

 

[JExpedition07]

Thanks for all the advice I appreciate it and value it. Rattled this morning so this stuff is not in my imagination....it’s going to make me cringe driving through the winter knowing this. Ah well at least everything in the short block isn’t effected by this timing set crap.

So I’m going to go with the Ford kit on amazon, and then order the oil pump as well. Hopefully the passenger camshaft and followers etc hold out for me fingers crossed.

 

[JExpedition07]

This is the noise a lot of the 2018+ expy owners have posted.....could this also be a hydraulic tensioner issue on the new models?


Here is a 2007 F-150 5.4 example of it pretty severe:

 

[762mm]

According to Makuloco on YouTube, the rattle should sound anywhere between 2 to 5 seconds after a few hours of engine being off when it's really "severe" and needs to be addressed.

These two examples don't sound too bad yet... (my guess)

That 2018 sounds much worse, though.

 

[Dorzak]

You know the laws of engineering supersede the laws of economics. The question is whether the oil pump is bad or not.

Except in manufacturing, then the manufacturer always listens to economics, not engineering.

 

[rwmorrisonjr]

Don’t get the freedom racing kit since the phasers have a tendency to malfunction and not hold timing. Get the kit on Amazon that FordTecMakULoco recommends. I have it, the Melling pump, and all the tools in my Amazon wish list for next spring.

Does anyone have a link to the Melling timing kit that was mentioned earlier in this thread?

 

[JExpedition07]

Don’t get the freedom racing kit since the phasers have a tendency to malfunction and not hold timing. Get the kit on Amazon that FordTecMakULoco recommends. I have it, the Melling pump, and all the tools in my Amazon wish list for next spring.

Does anyone have a link to the Melling timing kit that was mentioned earlier in this thread?

The freedom racing kit posted is all Ford oem. The Ford amazon deal provided by babycakes311 is $50 cheaper than freedom racing anyway however so that’s the winner.

 

[rwmorrisonjr]

I just looked at the Freedom Racing kit on my laptop, and it's all OEM. I saw the other kits in Freedom Racing's "alternatives" panel, so I'm guessing those are the kits MakULoco has had bad experiences since they're about $250-300 cheaper than the OEM kit. Either way, I'll do the Amazon kit when it comes time since I don't need the cam tone wheel, but will get the Melling oil pump.

 

[762mm]

I just started my 2014 after a week of it sitting in the driveway, as I was driving my other "work car" all week. I raised the hood to listen to any rattle.

Oh man! That f**ker sounded like the chain was gonna come off, lol! A hard metallic rattle for about 2 seconds, then all quieted down. I've never noticed this before when I was driving it more often this summer. The 7 days of sitting in the driveway plus the colder temperatures really drained those tensioners!

Well damn... looks like I'll probably be in the market for a timing kit and a high volume oil pump too. 132,000 maintained miles on mine. Thank you, Ford D-grade engineers!


(the myth that a timing chain setup is "for life" doesn't hold true with Fords! They might've just as well put a g-damn timing belt in those 5.4's...)

 

[JExpedition07]

You might be ok, 7 days and many cars would do that methinks. It’s not just the 5.4 3V, the older 2V Windsor engines have the same plastic tensioners that blow out. The difference is our 3 valves have Variable Cam Timing hardware and knock/throw codes after a while of the issue occuring. The older 2 valves just wasted the head without much warning from what I understand. The Modular engines, Ecos, Cyclones, etc all use these plastic oil pressure driven tensioners. They work for the most part but are a known issue.

 

[JExpedition07]

Oh the Horror! Pumpkin carving with little nephew:

 

[762mm]

^ Lol, hahaha! You have captured the fears so many of us experience with that carving! The evil spirit inhabiting the Ford V8 3-valve : no one knows when it will take its' next victim!




Seriously though, I've bought the truck in full confidence that it's a solid American V8 which should last a very long time without anything more than basic maintenance. F150's have a good reputation and have been around forever, after all (or so I thought).

Then I started seeing videos such as this one... and was like "WTF???" :

 

[JExpedition07]

Wow I wouldnt be bringing my vehicle to that guy. “There’s nothing you can do but just replace the engine”.....I stopped watching the video there, he doesn’t have a clue. That engine was so neglected and 4 cylinders weren’t firing, full of sludge. Engine wouldn’t need replacing if it was taken care of when they heard knocking and misfiring LOL. My gathering was instead of fixing the issues he sells new engines. I don’t like that.

I’ve had 2 3 valvers now and they both have treated me well. Last one was perfect until the truck was totaled at nearly 180k, this one runs fine but has occasional startup rattle. Neither left me stranded on the road.

 

[wingrider]

I went through the reverse with the 5.4 in my GT500. I went in there specifically to replace the oil pump since I track the car pretty much exclusively and wanted more pressure and volume. I also had the actual pump gears replaced with forged as the gears in those is some sort of powder cast something or other that tends to want to fail. I got the Ford Racing 5.4 pump from JDM Engineering ( www.teamjdm.com) and had the billet gears added and the o-ring ported. Anyway while the shop had it apart doing the oil pump, I had them also do the Ford Racing cam chains/gears set AND a forged crank gear for the chains. All that stuff is off when doing one or the other so I invested and did it all while the front of the motor was open. The chains and gears worked out to about 650 bucks. And about the same for just the pump.

JDM sells parts for F-150s but I didn't see if they had something for the 5.4 we use in the Expedition. If I have to get into mine (at 85k now with some tick tick) I will call them and ask if their solution bolts up. IT's not really economical for even a moderately used Expy, but having been though my GT500 5.4 motor now, the sound of the Expy chain clatter firing up cold bothers me.

 

[JExpedition07]

Oil pressure is 28-30 PSI at a hot idle, not sure where that puts me and if good or not. Sat there and listened to it and all I hear is injectors and no odd noises beyond the startup clatter, runs quiet and smooth. So plan is run it through winter in current shape and do timing job in spring.

Shop said I’d know if oil pressure was falling off. Said these engine will shake profusely and stall when they drop pressure because the VCT system won’t be able to operate correctly to keep it running.

 

[Boose]

what's the ole rule of thumb? 10lbs for every 1000 revs and your good. Did you happen to check it at 2000 RPM?

 

[TORNIT07]

I'm getting ready to do the timing job on my '07 Expy. I priced all required components included with the "kit" individually at TASCA Parts and came in well under the "kit" price. I'm replacing all the cam followers as well as the oil pump, and still under $1,200 by a long shot. I don't have the price list on hand, but it might pay for you to have a look at TASCA's site & price everything individually. Just a thought.


EDIT: Not buying the oil pump from TASCA. Going to buy the Melling HV pump from Amazon.