Power Fold mirrors -- how do they work?

[star-art]

Guys, you'll need a factory wiring diagram for your year before trying to make a swap like this. I don't know for sure how much the wiring has changed, but from what I can see (I have 2009 and 2017 manuals), it's pretty similar overall.

First, you must have memory seats in order to install memory mirrors. There's no practical way to add a memory option (not saying it's impossible, just impractical). If you have memory already and want to add power-fold and auto-dim options, you must first verify that your year had a power-fold option available. If yes, then you need to swap out your power mirror switch and run some new wires to the Driver Seat Module (DSM). The DSM drives the mirror folding motors using input from the mirror switch.

If your year did not offer power-fold as an option, you can still add it but it will require some custom wiring such as adding a relay or using an aftermarket module to drive the mirror folding motors.

Again, the DSM controls the folding motors. A brief 12V pulse from the mirror switch triggers the module to fold/unfold the mirrors. The module "knows" how long to move the mirrors so they end up in the right position. One disadvantage to using a relay or aftermarket module is you might "over drive" the mirrors past their limits. This will still work, but it could cause added wear and tear on the folding motors.

The auto-dim function is controlled by the interior rearview mirror. If an auto-dim outside mirror was not an available option for your year, the interior rearview mirror might not have the additional output to drive it. In that case, it should be possible to swap your interior rearview mirror with a newer one that has the extra output to drive the auto-dimming driver's side mirror.

Hope that helps!

 

[The Wiped Cam]

@JollyRoger & @star-art

Thanks. Both of yous.

 

[TXFRDOwner]

To recap what Star-art said...

- Is it a simple plug-n-play mod? ................ No !

- Can it be done ? .......... Yes, with some basic understanding of wiring diagrams, automotive electrical skills.... and a decent amount of patience.

 

[The Wiped Cam]

Just came across this bizarre post over at the F-150 forum. The guy didn't have to run any additional wires in his memory-optioned truck. However, he ended up having to replace his DSM in order to make the plug n play install work I think I'm going to check to see if a Forscan flash + loaner mirrors + loaner switch will get me up n going. Might take me a month though to clear my schedule.

 

[TXFRDOwner]

Just came across this bizarre post over at the F-150 forum. The guy didn't have to run any additional wires in his memory-optioned truck. However, he ended up having to replace his DSM in order to make the plug n play install work I think I'm going to check to see if a Forscan flash + loaner mirrors + loaner switch will get me up n going. Might take me a month though to clear my schedule.

The big takeaway is being pre-wired !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[star-art]

RE: The F150 post, this fellow was really lucky the wiring was already there. I don't know what year power-fold mirrors became available on F150. I'm guessing his Driver Seat Module (DSM) wasn't programmed for this option. Perhaps there's a line in the code to enable that feature? If so, he didn't really need to replace the DSM, just reprogram it.

On the other hand, if his DSM was not compatible with power-fold, he would've needed to upgrade it to a newer version.

 

[JExpedition07]

I believe 04 was the start. Let me check

 

[JExpedition07]

RE: The F150 post, this fellow was really lucky the wiring was already there. I don't know what year power-fold mirrors became available on F150. I'm guessing his Driver Seat Module (DSM) wasn't programmed for this option. Perhaps there's a line in the code to enable that feature? If so, he didn't really need to replace the DSM, just reprogram it.

On the other hand, if his DSM was not compatible with power-fold, he would've needed to upgrade it to a newer version (see below).

On our trucks, my 2009 factory wiring manual makes no mention of a power-fold option for either Expy or Navigator. The 2010 brochures say it was standard on Limited, King Ranch, and Navigator that year. So, it was available on 2010-17 models.

One thing I had not thought of until now:

If power-fold was not an available option for your year and you have memory seats/mirrors, you can't wire your power-fold mirror motors to your Driver Seat Module (DSM). It won't have the outputs to control the folding or the software to handle this functionality.

In this case, options are:

1) Use an aftermarket module or relay.

2) Replace your DSM with a 2010 or newer style that includes outputs for the power folding mirrors. Note that this will require custom programming through FORscan. It might also have unintended consequences due to changes in the programming and/or firmware inside the DSM.

The wiring book isn’t correct, Expedition Limited models have had Power-Fold mirrors standard since the 2004 model year

 

[TXFRDOwner]

RE:
On our trucks, my 2009 factory wiring manual makes no mention of a power-fold option for either Expy or Navigator. The 2010 brochures say it was standard on Limited, King Ranch, and Navigator that year. So, it was available on 2010-17 models.

Powerfolding wasn’t always controlled through DSM, I don’t know at what point Ford made the change but there was a much simpler setup before.

This little fellow right here, OEM Ford Relay 8C3Z-14N089-A aka the Power Folding Mirror Module

 

[star-art]

The wiring book isn’t correct, Expedition Limited models have had Power-Fold mirrors standard since the 2004 model year

You're right! The 2009 brochure mentions it and it is indeed in the 2009 wiring diagram. I stand corrected! Post above now edited.

Powerfolding wasn’t always controlled through DSM...

Well, that should make things easier! Use this module instead of connecting to the DSM.

 

[TXFRDOwner]

Well, that should make things easier! Use this module instead of connecting to the DSM.

Here's the write-up when I did my 07 Expy with the above mentioned relay.

https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/07-side-mirror-replacement.27860/#post-239237

 

[jeff kushner]

OK, this may sound like a really stupid question to ask. I did look though and I could not find the answer -- even in the owner's manual.

My '17 XLT does not have power-fold mirrors but I want to add this option. I'm curious to know exactly how the power fold switch works. I know you first place the mirror switch in the "neutral" position, then pull back on the switch to fold the mirrors in.

My question is, once the mirrors have been folded, do you pull back on the switch again to "un-fold" them? Or, do you push forward on the switch to un-fold?

The factory wiring diagram is a bit confusing. There's one input line to the Driver Door Module for power-fold activation. The diagram appears to show the switch internally connects this input to +12V when you pull back on the knob (i.e. "up"). That makes sense. But, the diagram also appears to show that the switch internally connects this same input to ground if you push forward on the knob (i.e. "down"). That's why I was confused about the operation of the switch.

Thanks for your help and for putting up with such a seemingly silly question!

EDIT: The owner's manual does say to pull back to fold or un-fold. So I guess I answered my own question. Again, just wanting to confirm. . . Thanks!

You might want to search around the end of '16, beginning of '17, maybe later for a post on "Powerfold mirror replacement". There was a guy selling brass parts and pieces for them and he was asking hos long they last and stuff....seemed pretty sharp....he might even have a retrofit kit for you!

jeff

 

[star-art]

Will check it out, thanks!!!

EDIT: Found it!

https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/power-folding-mirrors-issue.31401/page-2#post-271409

Here's where you can get the brass gears. They are listed for F-150 but it also states they will work with 2007-14 Expedition. As far as I know, mirrors continued to be the same through 2017 so not sure why these would not work in a 2015-17 model:

https://www.gruvenparts.com/ford-f150-brass-power-folding-mirror-gear/

 

[The Wiped Cam]

Just came back to report that the XLT Premium trim--at least the 2013 and the 2011 ones-- with the memory seating option can have the auto folding mirrors installed on it without running additional wiring. I had the privilege to flash an As Built DSM from a properly spec'd truck using IDS though. Your results may vary, and may cause you to lose a bunch of money on this experiment.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to rip out a couple of wiring harnesses from a 2012+ Expy to get the driver-side auto dimming function to work on my '11 XLT-P (I like my steak done OEM)


EDIT: the auto fold mentioned in this reply refers to the powerfold feature. This poster, my self, is a bonafide *******.

 

[BookemDanno]

Ok, so if I have a 2015 XLT with the 202A package (10 way memory seat), basically all I need is the power folding mirrors from a similar year (15-17) and the switch module for the door? Autofolding would be sweet, but I would settle for the power fold.

 

[The Wiped Cam]

Ok, so if I have a 2015 XLT with the 202A package (10 way memory seat), basically all I need is the power folding mirrors from a similar year (15-17) and the switch module for the door? Autofolding would be sweet, but I would settle for the power fold.

I don't think so. I don't have any experience carrying out this swap on a 2015+ MY Expy. However, the previous ones at least require a Forscan/IDS flash also, GRANTED you have already made sure the power fold pins exist in the power mirror harnesses.

 

[BookemDanno]

I don't think so. I don't have any experience carrying out this swap on a 2015+ MY Expy. However, the previous ones at least require a Forscan/IDS flash also, GRANTED you have already made sure the power fold pins exist in the power mirror harnesses.

I can definitely check the power pin, and I already have Forscan. I might pull that mirror off this week and check the pinout. We have a narrow driveway and have banged mirrors a few times!

 

[star-art]

Just came back to report that the XLT Premium trim--at least the 2013 and the 2011 ones-- with the memory seating option can have the auto folding mirrors installed on it without running additional wiring.

I think you meant "power fold" and not "auto folding?" The auto fold feature (folding/unfolding the mirrors when the truck is locked/unlocked) is not available on our Expeditions. It's controlled by the Driver Door Module (DDM) on F150's.

Also, I don't think we've established -- at least in this thread -- that wires for power-fold and/or auto-dim are already present in 2015-17 trucks equipped with memory/heated/turn signal mirrors. Hopefully they are, but this still needs to be confirmed.

If the wiring *is* there, you would need to swap out your mirror switch, but even then the power-folding feature still might not work. It's possible this needs to be enabled in the Driver Seat Module (DSM) via FORscan. This also needs to be confirmed for 2015-17 models.

I can't find any info on DSM options or programming. Does anyone have codes for either Expedition or 2011-14 F-150 DSM options? Thanks!

 

[TXFRDOwner]

Even if the wiring is there, I'm inclined to say that the DSM will require firmware update for powerfold also. if your dealership is anything like mine, they won't touch it with a 10-foot pole.

 

[The Wiped Cam]

I think you meant "power fold" and not "auto folding?" ......

You know what? I have another vehicle being discussed in another forum that has some issues going on with the autofold. I, being a moron that I am, wrote autofold instead of power fold in my posting here. Extremely sorry for the mixup.