Slow grind crank, limp mode...

[Jason_Darius]

The key was in the run position.

As for the radio, it works, but did start to dim portions of the digital screen (clock, station, etc.) just before I encountered this issue. I'll post a pic of that when I get the chance.

 

[Jason_Darius]

After rechecking and learning some things I believe the culprit is the signal cable that connects to the starter solenoid S Terminal. It runs from the solenoid, up in a bundle with the battery ground and positive red cable to the solenoid, to a place next to the battery where it connects to a section that goes to the ignition switch. This connection (see picture) looked a little beat up. I tested either side of the male/female connection. The portion that runs to the S Terminal was sending about 9 volts with a fully charged battery. Wiggle it and it may only send 5 volts. The male side of the connection (from the relay/ignition I assume) was getting the full 12.87 volts of my fully changed battery. My understanding is that the cable to the S Terminal should be sending 10-12 volts. Both sides of the cable looked like someone attempted to clean it up and rewrap with electrical tape. I plan on replacing this cable as those voltage numbers seem way off. Also note that I could start the vehicle once it started getting 9 volts.

Thoughts?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stamp11127]

A remote start switch will put +12 volts on the S terminal, you can do the same as a test. But the lower voltage is most likely the problem. It shouldn't have any voltage drop.

 

[Jason_Darius]

Cleaned via Dremel the loop connection on the S Terminal and then checked voltage. It’s now getting 12.8v from the fully charged battery (yesterday it was barely getting 9v). It’s hard to believe a dirty connection can cause that kind of volt drop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stamp11127]

Inside the starter solenoid there are two coils. One is the pull in coil/winding the other is the hold-in coil/winding. Their job is to move the drive gear out to mesh with the ring gear then send power into the starter windings. In order for them to work correctly they need full battery voltage.

 

[Jason_Darius]

Been sometime and I've had no issues for months... until recently. Now it won't start as before. Here's what I've done so far:
-I checked power on the S terminal looped connector once it was disconnected from the terminal post on the solenoid. It was getting full battery voltage.
-Then I connected the S terminal wire back to the solenoid S terminal post and then only 4-5 volts. WTF!
-Then I bypassed the S terminal wire with a another wire off the relay and same results: when connected to the S terminal post it also would get only 4-5 volts. I did this to make sure the wire itself wasn't bad.
-I also used a small jumper to bypass the starter relay on 85/86 I believe. Car started everytime.

Could a bad connection inside the solenoid cause a problem? But if so why would jumping the relay work? My assumption has been the relay, but I was getting 12.5 volts on the S terminal wire lead. Seems like connecting it to the lead reduces the voltage or there is resistance inside the solenoid? But why does it start when I use a jumper in the relay terminals?

Confusing.

 

[stamp11127]

S terminal loop connector - do you mean the ring terminal at the end of the wire?

Need to know the exact pin numbers you bypassed at the relay. 86 & 85 are the control, 30-87-87a are the high current load side. 30 is normally supplied power, output is 87/87a.

 

[Jason_Darius]

Thanks stamp. I've always had a habit of calling those loop connectors . But yes, it is ring connector.

I've included some pics just in case it helps. Yes, I am jumping 30 to 87.

The tests I've done...
1. Checked power on the ring connector on the signal wire. It read 12.5 volts ONLY when disconnected to the S terminal post.
2. Checked power on the S terminal post on the solenoid (once the ring connector was attached). It read 4-5 volts.
3. Checked power from the relay. It read 12.5 volts.
4. Checked all the relays. (all good).
5. Jumped 30/87 in the starter relay female ports to start the car. Started up perfect.

Other things worth noting:
-The battery is only a 3 months old.
-The solenoid is about 3 months old.

 

[stamp11127]

When you jump 30 to 87 and the starter cranks the engine, and you are able to do it repeatably, that proves the high current circuit from the relay is in good condition.
It also tells you to check the control side of the relay - 86 and 85. Normally 86 has power coming in, 85 goes to ground.
Red meter lead in 86 part of the socket, black lead to a good ground. Meter on dc volts. Turn ignition switch to start, you should read battery voltage - 12.6 is ideal. If you consistently have battery voltage then you need to check the ground part of the circuit.
I don't have the 2008 diagrams available to tell if the pcm is in the starting circuit at any point. If it is you have to be careful probing wires that run to the pcm and over power the circuit.

 

[Jason_Darius]

Thanks stamp. I'll test the control side of the relay and let you know what I get.

 

[07navi]

197k miles, put a new starter in it and get it over with!

 

[Jason_Darius]

Stamp, checked 86. Only got 0.8 volts. Clearly that won’t trigger the relay.
Thoughts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[07navi]

Stamp, checked 86. Only got 0.8 volts. Clearly that won’t trigger the relay.
Thoughts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yea, new starter

 

[stamp11127]

Let's see, putting in a new starter is just tossing parts at the problem. on top of that the problem is in the control circuit not the high current side so he will still be dead in the water.

Jason it is wiring diagram time. I worked on a 2007 with the same issue. There are 49 points that can fail and give you a no start scenario. Troubleshooting it will take time and patience. One thing to try is moving the gear selector while trying to start it.

 

[07navi]

Let's see, putting in a new starter is just tossing parts at the problem. on top of that the problem is in the control circuit not the high current side so he will still be dead in the water.

Jason it is wiring diagram time. I worked on a 2007 with the same issue. There are 49 points that can fail and give you a no start scenario. Troubleshooting it will take time and patience. One thing to try is moving the gear selector while trying to start it.

Not just throwing parts at it, it has 197k miles!

 

[stamp11127]

07navi - From reply #28:

5. Jumped 30/87 in the starter relay female ports to start the car. Started up perfect.

Starter is fine even though it has 197k miles on the clock. His problem is an intermittent open on the control side of the starting circuit. One of the first items to check is the digital range selector switch. Now is the time for a factory service manual.

 

[Jason_Darius]

Thanks stamp.

So I tried what you said about moving the gear shifter. I moved gear selector from P to N, jiggled it a bit, went back into P, and tried starting the car. It started right up. So I rechecked the 86 in the relay as before but got 12v this time. Sounds like a failing or worn digital range selector? Thoughts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[stamp11127]

I'm not 100% sure but I think the range selector is internal on your transmission. Not a big deal to change but definitely not one to learn on.

This will give you an idea of what is involved even if your trans is a different model. If you don't know what you're doing and split the valve body in half, you will experience a real bad day.