2018 Expo VS 2021 Tahoe test drive.

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Greg Parker

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I test drove multiple new Expeditions before I bought mine. They all did the same lateral bobblehead motion. Mine has 12,000 miles on it and handles exactly as it did new, except for the additional rear sway bar that I added that made it "tolerable". Your on ramp handling is right, they do handle great on the highway, its the backroad stuff they hate. If I drove all highways, or any for that matter, I wouldn't even notice this. I drive mostly all backroads and country roads and this thing wallows and flops all over the road on these surfaces. My wife got nautious and almost threw up in it before I added the rear sway bar. We had to pull over and let her get out and walk around and re-gain her bearings. Even my kids that are 4 and 7 ask why it sways side to side. I'm not making this stuff up, you guys need to pay more attention to its behavior on driveway approaches and angled surfaces. I have 8 other cars and NONE of them do this BS. I'm really hoping the front sway bar helps, but I have my reservations..... If it cures the bobble-head issues, then my wife will hands down buy another Expedition Max, but not if this handling issue won't resolve with the sway bars. There is a driveway at our local church parking lot that has a couple bumps in it. It swayed in such a rhythm so bad one day that I actually hit my head on the window, and I was probably going 5ish mph.

I'm probably too picky, because I spent years tweaking and re springing and revavling shocks on race ATV's and this kind of suspension problems would cause us to start over and revalve the shocks and try new spring rates. I honestly think the rebound valving speed is not right on these, so it allows the spring and shocks to extend out too fast and it in turn bucks the vehicle side to side as it does this. Sway bars will force the rear shocks to work as a pair and limit the rebound movement by borrowing from the other side with the heavy sway bar. Hope it helps whenever it arrives! :)

Maybe my tastes aren't as "discerning." To me, the Expy handles much better than my wife's '16 Honda Pilot, which is a significantly lighter and smaller platform. I've driven large vehicles pretty much my whole (driving) life and the only thing that ever handled better than my Expy (on "rough roads") was an old F250 that had solid rear AND front axles. But that was off-roading. On the highway that thing handled like and felt like riding an old hardtail chopper.

So...I reckon I still don't get it. If you're expecting the handling and stability of a sports car (on the highway) or a lifted 3/4-ton truck, off-road ...you definitely bought the wrong rig.
 

dlcorbett

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Maybe my tastes aren't as "discerning." To me, the Expy handles much better than my wife's '16 Honda Pilot, which is a significantly lighter and smaller platform. I've driven large vehicles pretty much my whole (driving) life and the only thing that ever handled better than my Expy (on "rough roads") was an old F250 that had solid rear AND front axles. But that was off-roading. On the highway that thing handled like and felt like riding an old hardtail chopper.

So...I reckon I still don't get it. If you're expecting the handling and stability of a sports car (on the highway) or a lifted 3/4-ton truck, off-road ...you definitely bought the wrong rig.

I think your misunderstanding deadman. Hes not saying the ride or stability is a problem as an everyday driver. Hes saying that on certain back roads with dips and swells, the vehicle doesnt settle itself like it should and as a result, sways and bobbles. Hes said on the hwy and on regular roads, the ride is sublime. This has been echoed by more than a few pro journalists as well. You wouldnt feel this on a hwy road. Also, he doesnt have a max, i believe the max on ccd rides better than swb. Even edmunds implies this in their new car rtg of the truck for 2020 compared to 2018. I remember the first time i drove the expy, it was a fully loaded platty, drivin out of the dealer lot and onto the road from a curb, the car immediately started rocking side to side. I can imagine this at a higher clip, the car doin this over and over. Luckily, the base sus has better body ctrl so i didnt have to live with it.
 

Greg Parker

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I think your misunderstanding deadman. Hes not saying the ride or stability is a problem as an everyday driver. Hes saying that on certain back roads with dips and swells, the vehicle doesnt settle itself like it should and as a result, sways and bobbles. Hes said on the hwy and on regular roads, the ride is sublime. This has been echoed by more than a few pro journalists as well. You wouldnt feel this on a hwy road. Also, he doesnt have a max, i believe the max on ccd rides better than swb. Even edmunds implies this in their new car rtg of the truck for 2020 compared to 2018. I remember the first time i drove the expy, it was a fully loaded platty, drivin out of the dealer lot and onto the road from a curb, the car immediately started rocking side to side. I can imagine this at a higher clip, the car doin this over and over. Luckily, the base sus has better body ctrl so i didnt have to live with it.


Fair enough ...but I've subjected mine to just about all road conditions, including some pretty rough forest roads in Northern Arizona. Just don't have any similar experiences. I'm going to be putting it to a greater test in September and October with a couple of camping trips and a hunting trip. We will see how it goes.
 

Craigga542

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FWIW, I do have a couple roads I find this issue on. Other than that, I love the ride. I have all original suspension so this may not work, but it’s the only time I actually prefer to be in eco mode. The eco suspension on the couple of roads dampens a lot of what I think you are describing. May be worth checking out if you haven’t?
 

Fozzy

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I'm probably too picky, because I spent years tweaking and re springing and revavling shocks on race ATV's and this kind of suspension problems would cause us to start over and revalve the shocks and try new spring rates.

What did you race? Flat track? I raced MX and desert for years on a quad. Still run a desert race here and there in the old guy class. Ran Ohlin’s, PEP’s, Elka and Fox Floats never had problems with the side to side motion with a solid rear axle. Are you saying you feel the front to back motion in the Expy? I feel the rear walking around, especially if their is weird ruts in the road and I cross them.


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Deadman

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Ah ok. I haven’t driven the 2021’s yet. Don’t the 2020 expy and Denalis both have identical 0-60 times?

They probably do, which again proves that the 6.2L makes its power in a drag race/high rpm scenario. It was unimpressive around town.
 
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Deadman

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I think your misunderstanding deadman. Hes not saying the ride or stability is a problem as an everyday driver. Hes saying that on certain back roads with dips and swells, the vehicle doesnt settle itself like it should and as a result, sways and bobbles. Hes said on the hwy and on regular roads, the ride is sublime. This has been echoed by more than a few pro journalists as well. You wouldnt feel this on a hwy road. Also, he doesnt have a max, i believe the max on ccd rides better than swb. Even edmunds implies this in their new car rtg of the truck for 2020 compared to 2018. I remember the first time i drove the expy, it was a fully loaded platty, drivin out of the dealer lot and onto the road from a curb, the car immediately started rocking side to side. I can imagine this at a higher clip, the car doin this over and over. Luckily, the base sus has better body ctrl so i didnt have to live with it.

EXACTLY, exactly, exactly. Its all the bobblehead action thats just annoying. On the highway the thing rides like perfection after the rear sway bar swap. Its just the annoying bobbling at lower speeds that has me considering the Denali.
I do have a Max version tho......... :)
 
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Deadman

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FWIW, I do have a couple roads I find this issue on. Other than that, I love the ride. I have all original suspension so this may not work, but it’s the only time I actually prefer to be in eco mode. The eco suspension on the couple of roads dampens a lot of what I think you are describing. May be worth checking out if you haven’t?
I never run eco because the trans gets so lazy. Its worth a try I guess! :)
 
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Deadman

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What did you race? Flat track? I raced MX and desert for years on a quad. Still run a desert race here and there in the old guy class. Ran Ohlin’s, PEP’s, Elka and Fox Floats never had problems with the side to side motion with a solid rear axle. Are you saying you feel the front to back motion in the Expy? I feel the rear walking around, especially if their is weird ruts in the road and I cross them.


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We just ran a local track that was mx style and we ran Polaris Outlaw 525 IRS quads, because the KTM Mill had huge grunt and the IRS was amazing once you got it mastered. We ran Fox podiums and cut the shock bodies down and had rear good results and then the Floats came out and we ran those. The floats were awesome once they came with the dual air chambers and such. All the magic in these quads was in the rear IRS spring and shock combos, because even in full washboard you could lay the power down in any gear wide open and watch the straight axles wheel hopping as you passed them! They were heavier than the straight axles, but they sure were comfortable as they ate the nasty stuff and had amazing clearance once it got rutted up.
 

carymccarr

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They probably do, which again proves that the 6.2L makes its power in a drag race/high rpm scenario. It was unimpressive around town.

Sounding more and more like operator error ;-)


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LokiWolf

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The 6.2 and eco 3.5 have similar torque and HP and at 50-60MPH (passing speed) the 6.2 pulls ahead.

Pretty sure a tuned 6.2L would destroy a stock expy.

The 3.5 is a nice engine, don’t get me wrong but no matter how much fake engine noise ford pumps into the cabin there’s no beating the sound of the 8’s IMO.


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We have been down this road. Stock a 3.5 Second Gen in Expy Limited or below beats a 5.3, slightly loses to a 6.2, but the 6.2 loses to a Platinum, and a Navi with the HO 3.5.

Tuned on 93, the 6.2 gains like 35-40 HP, a 2nd Gen non HO gains 90, the HO can gain about 80 on its already 6.2 beating numbers.

That is all on 93 Gas, bring Ethanol in to the mix..and the 6.2 falls even further behind.

Love the sound of the 6.2, cannot argue, it and the Hemi have the sound nailed, but from a power standpoint the 3.5 is the winner.


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Fozzy

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We just ran a local track that was mx style and we ran Polaris Outlaw 525 IRS quads,

Wow, that’s very interesting. I have never seen an outlaw race. But that makes sense with the sway. I don’t think I would have the balls to ride a outlaw over a 50’ double. I am so old I raced a Quad Racer 250 and a Quadzilla in the open class. Then moved to a YFZ 450 then to a LT450. Always loved the Suzuki’s. Still have a desert prepped LT450. The floats where awesome for MX but sucked in the desert. Elka was my favorite.


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duneslider

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Wow, that’s very interesting. I have never seen an outlaw race. But that makes sense with the sway. I don’t think I would have the balls to ride a outlaw over a 50’ double. I am so old I raced a Quad Racer 250 and a Quadzilla in the open class. Then moved to a YFZ 450 then to a LT450. Always loved the Suzuki’s. Still have a desert prepped LT450. The floats where awesome for MX but sucked in the desert. Elka was my favorite.


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@Fozzy Awe, love the quad racer and Quadzilla. Had a quad racer and a honda 250r and a banshee. Didn't race, just liked to sling sand. My brothers had some 450's and a raptor. Liked them but my heart is with the 2-strokes. I mix my weed eater with maxima castor, makes me happy the whole time. My buddy had an Outlaw and it was a lot of fun on the dirt but didn't like to slide in the sand so...

My friend growing up raced a Suzuki 250, you know David Lindsay? (LMR-Lindsay Machine Racing) The suzuki wasn't the most popular on the racing scene.
 

Fozzy

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@Fozzy Awe, love the quad racer and Quadzilla. Had a quad racer and a honda 250r and a banshee. Didn't race, just liked to sling sand. My brothers had some 450's and a raptor. Liked them but my heart is with the 2-strokes. I mix my weed eater with maxima castor, makes me happy the whole time. My buddy had an Outlaw and it was a lot of fun on the dirt but didn't like to slide in the sand so...

My friend growing up raced a Suzuki 250, you know David Lindsay? (LMR-Lindsay Machine Racing) The suzuki wasn't the most popular on the racing scene.

He is younger than me, but I would see him back in the Wild West series. LMR would rebuild all my bikes. The 250R did rule the 2 strokes. But at the PRO level Doug Gust dominated on a Suzuki LT450. I don’t even know if they do any series around here anymore. BOR does some SxS and truck races with the occasional moto and ATV classes. Still dune the old LT when I’m feeling young and stupid. Maybe you, Deadman an I need to get out and ride.


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LokiWolf

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You made a comment about a tuned 6.2 would beat a stock Expy, Duh. A tuned 6.2 would have a hard time beating stock Navi 0-60 with a good launch. Being the HO 3.5 2nd Gen.

Until last year, you could only get the 6.2 in the Denali...which is more in line with the Platinum which it loses to. Or the Escalade...in line with the Navi...and another loss.

Tune any Expy Motor on 93, and No 6.2, even tuned, can play. None. Zero.

You spend A LOT of time on here complaining about your Navi. You also spend a lot of time trying to convince people the Various GMC SUV’s are better.

Is there anything you like about your Navi? Just curious.



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Expedition Dave

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You bought the FX4 without a diesel why not the Z71?


Good Question--
1. I needed one immediately (2months ago) 2. Unknown wait time/shortages for '21s due to plant/C19 shutdowns 3. IMHO, questionable quality control under these conditions. 4. No deals on brand new '21s for at least a year (most likely) 5. Wanted to get back to Ford 6. Got a good deal locally. 7. Hate GMs guts for not upping the power on the 5.3 over a million years (owned a previous Tahoe with low gear sets) and Ford 3.5 TT had more power/torque.
 

carymccarr

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You spend A LOT of time on here complaining about your Navi. You also spend a lot of time trying to convince people the Various GMC SUV’s are better.

Is there anything you like about your Navi? Just curious.



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In general the Navi is a great vehicle. But just like any vehicle there are some serious shortcomings. Unfortunately the sync system is a complete disaster.

And I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I’m just not a brand loyalist so it probably appears as such to some. *shrug*.


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