2018 Expo VS 2021 Tahoe test drive.

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Deadman

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I have to say I had high hopes for the new Tahoe as a GM owner of the past. I literally found myself sitting there laughing at it.


Its like a 2018 Expedition that they finally copied 3 years later..... I'll give it they ride better on crooked surfaces, but other than that there was NOTHING that made me fall in love over the Expedition. Its probably just as good as the expedition, but its NO better, even after copying the Ford and having 3 years to improve it.
 

Molardog

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Its like a 2018 Expedition that they finally copied 3 years later..... I'll give it they ride better on crooked surfaces, but other than that there was NOTHING that made me fall in love over the Expedition. Its probably just as good as the expedition, but its NO better, even after copying the Ford and having 3 years to improve it.

Agreed. I did notice the uneven pavement ride quality. Grateful to live somewhere with nice asphalt so definitely a non factor. I am still flabbergasted at how much their HVAC designs suck.
 

dlcorbett

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Not bad considering its brand new. Didnt get why they liked the 5.3 over the 3.5, seems to me becuz it "felt" fast that it was the better powertrain? And third row room was better? But what about comfort? Eh, it wasnt a true comparo so...
 

sanman28

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Kinda what you figure. The V8's usually "feel" faster around town...we have a 16' denali too so i have lived with this, but the data clearly show the ford smokes it in a race. The items like the infotainment system, well, yeah duh....the GM is a brand new design and you see how fast tech advances...same for the ride. The rest is subjective. Good comparison. The new kid usually gets the nod unless you dig deeper or have very focused needs.
 

drw1926

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Both vehicles have 42” first row headroom


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Just because that is what is quoted in the manufacturer's brochure, it doesn't mean that's what is really true in practice. If you believed everything you read from the manufacturer there wouldn't be any need to do a test drive now would there?
 

carymccarr

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Just because that is what is quoted in the manufacturer's brochure, it doesn't mean that's what is really true in practice. If you believed everything you read from the manufacturer there wouldn't be any need to do a test drive now would there?

Please explain how headroom measurements would be fudged?

Do you dynotest your vehicles to be sure you got the HP the manufacturer says you did?


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Deadman

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Please explain how headroom measurements would be fudged?

Do you dynotest your vehicles to be sure you got the HP the manufacturer says you did?


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I'm not sure, but I'll tell you that the Tahoe that I sat in had 3-4 inches less headroom vs my Expedition. Again, I did not play with the seat height in either, but the seat in my Expedition is far from the bottom, so I'm pretty sure there is less room in new Tahoe. I didn't do any scientific measuring tho...
 

flying68

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Please explain how headroom measurements would be fudged?

Do you dynotest your vehicles to be sure you got the HP the manufacturer says you did?


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They don't fudge head room, but they don't always tell you that the stated head room may be on a base seat without the extra cushion and features. For example, if you have a chance, find two Lincoln Aviators, one with the 30 way seats and one with the base seats. Lower both all the way down and sit in them. Your eye level in the base seat is about 2 inches lower with the base seat than the 30 way. That was s significant deciding factor for me going with an Expedition instead of getting the Aviator, which is the vehicle I wanted. My eye level with the 30 way seats was even with the bottom of the sunvisor. With the base seats I was at the AS1 line.
 

larryjb

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To be honest, I don't like any of the modern offerings. I'd much rather have the column or floor shifter over the push buttons on the GM or the dial shifter on the Fords. The column or floor shifter is easy and intuitive for anyone to find and use. If you are parallel parking or backing into a parking spot, I don't want to have to fuss with "new and cool".

My wife does like the power folding seats on her '08 Explorer while I like the mechanical seats on my '02 Tahoe. I can remove the 3rd row seats entirely leaving a solid floor with the exception of the 2nd row seat. I currently have a cargo liner that can remain in the truck regardless of whether I have the 3rd row installed or not. It would not be practical to have a cargo liner if you have power folding seats. I don't see how you can have an effective full cargo liner with power folding 3rd row seats. (I admit that my cargo liner won't cover the 2nd row seat area, but the coverage up to the 2nd row is usually enough.)

The buttons and knobs on the older Chevy's and Fords are quick and easy to learn and use. They do anything I need and want. These new touch screens in the center console take up too much real estate space in the dash board. All I need for the back up camera is a screen built into the rear view camera:

https://www.mastertailgaters.com/collections/rear-view-mirrors-with-lcd

I really do not like having radio and HVAC controls embedded into the touch screen as is the trend. One plus for the Expedition is that the HVAC controls, as far as I know, are still physical buttons.

Personally, I'm still on the fence between GM's DFM (dynamic fuel management) vs Ford's Ecoboost. The Ecoboost would be far more complex to fix IF something goes wrong. It does seem that Ford has solved the carbon issue though, and GM's DFM has become equally less problematic. GM's 6.2 or 5.3, remaining a pushrod engine, would be easier to work on. I like keeping cars/trucks going for a long time. Sooner or later, some engine work will have to be done on either vehicle. Would I rather fix an Ecoboost or DFM? Don't know yet. I'll admit, I do like the performance of the new drive trains over my old 5.3. My favourite so far is my 08 Explorer with the 4.6L + 6 speed transmission.

As for towing capabilities between the Expedition vs Suburban, a number you really need to pay attention to is the GCWR because you have to consider all the people and stuff you are packing along with the trailer. The towing ratings can be misleading. The GCWR of a 2020 Suburban can be up to 14,000. The GCWR of an Expedition can be up to 15,500 lbs which is slightly higher. After you subtract the weight of each vehicle you get 8000 lbs for the Suburban which includes the trailer PLUS you and your gear. You get 9000 lbs for the equivalent expedition. The 1000 lb difference is not a whole lot. GM used to offer a heavy duty Suburban 2500 that had a GCWR of 16000 lbs. Now THAT made a difference. The trailer rating wasn't much more, but you could add a lot more to the back of your truck as well and still be below the GCWR. Alas, it is not offered anymore.

Right now though, I'm fed up with all the extra distracting electronic "cool" stuff going into cars and trucks. They are becoming more "cool", but in my opinion, less useful and practical in many ways.
 

shane_th_ee

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All I need for the back up camera is a screen built into the rear view camera:

https://www.mastertailgaters.com/collections/rear-view-mirrors-with-lcd

I really do not like having radio and HVAC controls embedded into the touch screen as is the trend. One plus for the Expedition is that the HVAC controls, as far as I know, are still physical buttons.

As for towing capabilities...
I'm going to suggest you'll change your mind the first time you hitch up a trailer using a big screen and the camera zoom function.6F5FACBC-E5F0-4A08-9CC1-7DBD46D2CAB4.jpeg
 

larryjb

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Yes, that is a nice feature, but not a critical feature for me. I can see well enough with my backup camera and rear view mirror monitor.

The dash of the Expedition and Excursion is actually quite good. The Explorer is terrible though. But that dial shifter.... That could drive me nuts. Give me the column shifter. I'll admit it, I'm an ol' stick in the mud!
 

LokiWolf

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To be honest, I don't like any of the modern offerings. I'd much rather have the column or floor shifter over the push buttons on the GM or the dial shifter on the Fords. The column or floor shifter is easy and intuitive for anyone to find and use. If you are parallel parking or backing into a parking spot, I don't want to have to fuss with "new and cool".

My wife does like the power folding seats on her '08 Explorer while I like the mechanical seats on my '02 Tahoe. I can remove the 3rd row seats entirely leaving a solid floor with the exception of the 2nd row seat. I currently have a cargo liner that can remain in the truck regardless of whether I have the 3rd row installed or not. It would not be practical to have a cargo liner if you have power folding seats. I don't see how you can have an effective full cargo liner with power folding 3rd row seats. (I admit that my cargo liner won't cover the 2nd row seat area, but the coverage up to the 2nd row is usually enough.)

The buttons and knobs on the older Chevy's and Fords are quick and easy to learn and use. They do anything I need and want. These new touch screens in the center console take up too much real estate space in the dash board. All I need for the back up camera is a screen built into the rear view camera:

https://www.mastertailgaters.com/collections/rear-view-mirrors-with-lcd

I really do not like having radio and HVAC controls embedded into the touch screen as is the trend. One plus for the Expedition is that the HVAC controls, as far as I know, are still physical buttons.

Personally, I'm still on the fence between GM's DFM (dynamic fuel management) vs Ford's Ecoboost. The Ecoboost would be far more complex to fix IF something goes wrong. It does seem that Ford has solved the carbon issue though, and GM's DFM has become equally less problematic. GM's 6.2 or 5.3, remaining a pushrod engine, would be easier to work on. I like keeping cars/trucks going for a long time. Sooner or later, some engine work will have to be done on either vehicle. Would I rather fix an Ecoboost or DFM? Don't know yet. I'll admit, I do like the performance of the new drive trains over my old 5.3. My favourite so far is my 08 Explorer with the 4.6L + 6 speed transmission.

As for towing capabilities between the Expedition vs Suburban, a number you really need to pay attention to is the GCWR because you have to consider all the people and stuff you are packing along with the trailer. The towing ratings can be misleading. The GCWR of a 2020 Suburban can be up to 14,000. The GCWR of an Expedition can be up to 15,500 lbs which is slightly higher. After you subtract the weight of each vehicle you get 8000 lbs for the Suburban which includes the trailer PLUS you and your gear. You get 9000 lbs for the equivalent expedition. The 1000 lb difference is not a whole lot. GM used to offer a heavy duty Suburban 2500 that had a GCWR of 16000 lbs. Now THAT made a difference. The trailer rating wasn't much more, but you could add a lot more to the back of your truck as well and still be below the GCWR. Alas, it is not offered anymore.

Right now though, I'm fed up with all the extra distracting electronic "cool" stuff going into cars and trucks. They are becoming more "cool", but in my opinion, less useful and practical in many ways.

HaHa...

This made me seriously laugh.

This was the SUV equivalent of “get off my lawn”.

There are several cargo liners that can fold with the seats...

You are the exception. The majority of up and coming buyers want the “Tech”. We want phone integration, apps, modes and other things like that.

The dial is no less intuitive than a lever or handle. I do personally think the buttons are annoying, but again based on feeling. It is all based on what we learned on.

When manuals went from shift on the column to the floor, people complained, but in the long run it was better.

Now that I am used to the rotating dial, I actually find it easier. A simple turn, and done. It requires less motion. It takes up less space.

If I showed my daughter a shift on the column, she would have no idea, because she has never seen one used. Buttons and dials will be the new normal. It is intuitive for somebody who has never driven.


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scotthere

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HaHa...

This made me seriously laugh.

This was the SUV equivalent of “get off my lawn”.

There are several cargo liners that can fold with the seats...

You are the exception. The majority of up and coming buyers want the “Tech”. We want phone integration, apps, modes and other things like that.

The dial is no less intuitive than a lever or handle. I do personally think the buttons are annoying, but again based on feeling. It is all based on what we learned on.

When manuals went from shift on the column to the floor, people complained, but in the long run it was better.

Now that I am used to the rotating dial, I actually find it easier. A simple turn, and done. It requires less motion. It takes up less space.

If I showed my daughter a shift on the column, she would have no idea, because she has never seen one used. Buttons and dials will be the new normal. It is intuitive for somebody who has never driven.


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The stupid transmission is electronic! Just put PNDM buttons on the steering wheel with shift paddles and extend the console cavity to the dash and or offer a front middle seat with fold down arm rests (Navagator seat).

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LokiWolf

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The stupid transmission is electronic! Just put PNDM buttons on the steering wheel with shift paddles and extend the console cavity to the dash and or offer a front middle seat with fold down arm rests (Navagator seat).

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Yep!!


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JExpedition07

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You can get an 2020 XLT base if you don’t like all the extras, no apps and less to break if you keep long term. You’ll get your small camera. Growing up in the tech generation there is times I dislike it for sure. My uncle spent tens of thousands having a new special intercom system put in an apartment complex he built and now wished he just did old fashion doorbells. Company went under and as the units go bad there is no support or fix.....I’m more interested in the bones (engine, chassis, drivetrain) of my autos so I hear you there. But heated steering wheels, seats, an app to start the car are nice to have and add comfort for those who want it. Don’t knock it till you tried it fits here I guess.
 
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drw1926

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Please explain how headroom measurements would be fudged?

Do you dynotest your vehicles to be sure you got the HP the manufacturer says you did?


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I never said they were "fudged", I said what's quoted in a brochure may not be what's true in practice, same as it is with fuel efficiency. Different manufacturers use different methods of calculating headroom.

Hypothetical example; let's say both the Expedition and Toyota Sequoia say they have 42.0" of headroom. Do you honestly believe they have identical amounts of headroom when you get in the vehicle and adjust it the way you like it? Of course that's a possibility, but would you purchase a vehicle as expensive as these based on what's in the posted specs? Does that measurement take into account the sunroof or not? The height of the seat? You could have 2-3" of space between the top of your head and the headliner in one, while you may be brushing against the headliner in the other. As I implied in my original post, how else are you going to determine how a vehicle fits you without sitting in the driver's seat and checking it out yourself?
 

carymccarr

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Hypothetical example; let's say both the Expedition and Toyota Sequoia say they have 42.0" of headroom. Do you honestly believe they have identical amounts of headroom when you get in the vehicle and adjust it the way you like it?

No. Of course not. That makes no sense.

That’s like saying “do you honestly believe truck beds are identical sizes even if you put a tool carrier/locker in just one of them?”

Headroom is measured from a cars interior roof to the seat cushion. As for adjustments? That’s why some manufactures put “min/max” headroom/legroom etc.

I’m not suggesting, by the way, that you shouldn’t test drive cars etc. I was simply stating the fact that both vehicles have identical base headroom figures.
 
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