Wow thats a dumb question? The g class is faster, but the navigator is smoother, quieter, handles better, way more comfy, has three row of seats, safer, more economical and arguably looks better.
Consumer reports Expedition is trash?
- Thread starter Vipersinu2
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carymccarr
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https://www.motorbiscuit.com/who-on...ack-label-instead-of-a-mercedes-benz-g-wagon/
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CaptainKrunch
Active Member
My 1996 honda accord had no oil leaks at 150k plus miles and no major repairs. My 2003 expedition needed a new transmission at about 86k miles. Rear end has been making noise since buying it used in 2007. Windshield leaked and caused all kinds of problems. Heated and cooled seats won't work unless I pay the dealer $400 to reprogram them. And it has leaked oil for the past 10 years. Ford durability blows
Lee Hartwig
Active Member
Have had only a few issues w my 2016 XLT, rear AC feed line cracked and had to be replaced at 50,000 miles and drivers seat side cover has had to be replaced twice when clips holding it snapped off. New one has been fine for over a year now. Bottom of rear hatch door showing some corrosion bubbles, Tires and brakes at 55,000, nothing else. Love my truck.
C
Chance A Tucker
Didn't read the whole 5 pages...I won't buy another Ford until all the reviews are glowing. We have a '16 XLT we bought new. Within 10k miles it developed a rattle under the dash in the front passenger area that comes and goes. By 30k there was/is a rear shock that is either blown (never saw oil out of it), damaged, or by design lets the rear pogo over parking lot speed bumps. By 50k I had to replace a blend door actuator in the rear AC unit...the main gear in it being some type of plastic that grinds down instead of metal. At around 60k it developed the ominous turbo coolant leak that comes and goes. The stealership says Ford reduced the interval on changing the spark plugs from the original 100k down to 75k. The rear park camera intermittently will be scrambled and can't be fixed without turning the whole vehicle off.
This isn't a machine that is built to last..but I'm betting Ford execs still rake in the compensation.
This isn't a machine that is built to last..but I'm betting Ford execs still rake in the compensation.
positivemojo
Active Member
It's the old timing chain issue which has plagued Ford for well over a decade. I just had it happen on my Expedition and had to replace my entire timing system. Huge job and huge cost. The components I bought have been re-engineered to solve the problem and my Expedition now has incredible power and performance - but why can't Ford solve this stupid problem??
Just look at the number of videos and articles on the issue. I bought new parts from my Ford dealer and asked how many they had in stock and it was unbelievable how many they had on the shelf. Why? Because the failure happens A LOT. And I think it's going to happen even more when they start putting smaller engines in big cars and try offsetting the strain on the engine with turbochargers. Think crankshaft, camshaft, valves, chains, guides, you name it. Quite frankly I think it is going to get worse before it gets better. They are trying to squeeze too many MPG by putting in these small engines and we are going to see a lot of failures way before they hit 100,000 miles.
Just look at the number of videos and articles on the issue. I bought new parts from my Ford dealer and asked how many they had in stock and it was unbelievable how many they had on the shelf. Why? Because the failure happens A LOT. And I think it's going to happen even more when they start putting smaller engines in big cars and try offsetting the strain on the engine with turbochargers. Think crankshaft, camshaft, valves, chains, guides, you name it. Quite frankly I think it is going to get worse before it gets better. They are trying to squeeze too many MPG by putting in these small engines and we are going to see a lot of failures way before they hit 100,000 miles.
positivemojo
Active Member
That rattle is likely the timing chain. If it is, you stand the chance of blowing your engine if it jumps a tooth on your crankshaft gear, which can happen if you have a problem with your tensioning guides. I know because I just had the same problem and fixed it - was shocked at how loose the timing chain had become. It was expensive even though I fixed it myself but my engine now runs better than new. My recommendation is to have someone who has done a timing job check it out and possible save you a couple of grand replacing the engine.
JamaicaJoe
Full Access Members
Is there any corrosion warranty for those bubbles? A four year old car and the paint is bubbling through? Mind you I am in FL but my 19 year old Expy has only a tiny bit of rust, on the drivers door sill around a fastener and under the radiator bracket.
Thomas Hardesty
Active Member
I have a 2019 Limited, with 55,000miles on it, and yet to have one single problem! So for me to believe this article as truth is a little far fetched to me?
cosauto
Member
cosauto
Member
Its all a matter of opinion. Consumers Report in my opinion is a rag.
Robert Wright
Member
carymccarr
Full Access Members
I didn’t even know that was a real thing. I thought it was a nickname for Motor trend or spending.
Looks like a garbage clickbait site. Title says one thing and then 70% of the article is actually heaping praise on the black label lol.
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OP
OP
Vipersinu2
Full Access Members
Google should stop posting from this website. Conflicting articles. Now they say lincoln is good?
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/2-lincoln-suvs-beat-the-2020-lexus-rx/
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/2-lincoln-suvs-beat-the-2020-lexus-rx/
blakwing42
Member
I used to put a lot of faith in CR because my father used to make almost all of his purchase decisions around their recommendations. As I've gotten older I've learned that CR is nothing more than a single source that is opinion driven by inherent biases of the authors and a limited set of polling data. Just like each and every other "source" out there.
It is nothing more, nothing less.
And out of millions of vehicles sold basing the overall reliability of something on such a tiny sample size is near meaningless. It comes down to personal experience, personal use cases, and a million other factors that can't be all adequately accounted for. And with any modern car.. I would posit that you would be hard pressed to find any model or manufacturer that produces a truly bad/unreliable car outside of anecdotal experience.
Take the cam phaser issue for example. Exactly how many cars and trucks does Ford build that have the Ecoboost? How many are on the road right now? Millions? Even several thousand cam phaser failures amounts to nothing but a statistical hiccup. It's like asking how many pentastar engines does Dodge have in circulation..
And what is "reliability"? It's already been hinted at in this thread. Reliability used to mean "how many times did this car leave me stranded"? Now it's been reduced to seat squeaks and wireless chargers not working though phone cases or "I just noticed a slight hum at max volume coming from speaker 14 of my 18 speaker surround audio system". And with that being the case how many vehicles are given positive or negative ratings based on equipment levels? That has also been touched on in this thread. How it's the limited and platinum trims showing the most problems. Just like with the older ram 1500's. I have a 2013 for work. It's a tradesman. I have had, literally, no issues in 140k miles. Hard miles. Tires, brakes, oil. That's it. But there is also next to nothing on that truck. It has an engine, a transmission, and only the things necessary to make it go down the road legally. There is no balanced climate control system, no infotainment, no electronic safety aids nor automated cruise control.. Nothing. So.. if there was an issue with any of that.. I'd never see it because I don't have it. So what do these "reliability ratings" really and honestly tell us?
It is nothing more, nothing less.
And out of millions of vehicles sold basing the overall reliability of something on such a tiny sample size is near meaningless. It comes down to personal experience, personal use cases, and a million other factors that can't be all adequately accounted for. And with any modern car.. I would posit that you would be hard pressed to find any model or manufacturer that produces a truly bad/unreliable car outside of anecdotal experience.
Take the cam phaser issue for example. Exactly how many cars and trucks does Ford build that have the Ecoboost? How many are on the road right now? Millions? Even several thousand cam phaser failures amounts to nothing but a statistical hiccup. It's like asking how many pentastar engines does Dodge have in circulation..
And what is "reliability"? It's already been hinted at in this thread. Reliability used to mean "how many times did this car leave me stranded"? Now it's been reduced to seat squeaks and wireless chargers not working though phone cases or "I just noticed a slight hum at max volume coming from speaker 14 of my 18 speaker surround audio system". And with that being the case how many vehicles are given positive or negative ratings based on equipment levels? That has also been touched on in this thread. How it's the limited and platinum trims showing the most problems. Just like with the older ram 1500's. I have a 2013 for work. It's a tradesman. I have had, literally, no issues in 140k miles. Hard miles. Tires, brakes, oil. That's it. But there is also next to nothing on that truck. It has an engine, a transmission, and only the things necessary to make it go down the road legally. There is no balanced climate control system, no infotainment, no electronic safety aids nor automated cruise control.. Nothing. So.. if there was an issue with any of that.. I'd never see it because I don't have it. So what do these "reliability ratings" really and honestly tell us?
carymccarr
Full Access Members
CR gathers responses from hundreds and hundreds of owners for each vehicle they test. So, by definition, it’s not ‘single source’.
It may not be perfect but if the same method is used across all vehicles then it’s at least likely to be directionally accurate.
Certainly better than the one off “what a lie! My truck lasted forever with no issues!!!” Comment on a interweb board.
There other product tests rely on pretty stringent and consistent testing across brands. They are a non for profit that take no ad revenue or brand sponsorships.
I’ve generally found that the more brand loyal a person is the LESS they like CR.
I’m the complete opposite of brand loyal so maybe that’s why I like their methodology and pragmatism.
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mwl001
Full Access Members
I agree, nobody's perfect but at least they have actual data and a methodology to what they do. In their ratings you have to keep an eye on what your needs are and not just blindly buy whatever is "best in segment" as they have to choose priorities to weight more heavily, usually safety and reliability. I do wonder sometimes if an "unreliable" car 20 years ago could even sniff the jock of what they call unreliable now... I think they unfortunately do have somewhat of a vested interest in stratifying reliability and it's hard not to wonder if the gap has shrunk quite a bit. There's a difference between unreliable meaning "less reliable than very reliable" and "too unreliable to own or recommend". My guess would be that everything has gotten more reliable over the last couple of decades but vehicles are still described in that too-binary methodology. I could be wrong though.
In 2009 I bought a 05 Dodge Grand Caravan with 80k miles, rated badly, in terms of reliability by CR. I was sad about my purchase and always anticipated the van to break down.
At 180k miles it was totaled and turned out to be the most reliable and cheap to own car that I have ever had. During my 100k ownership I only changed water pump, radiator, tie rod ends, rear shocks, and harmonic balancer. Other items were all maintenance related (belts, fluids, etc.). In comparison my current Honda Odyssey is a nightmare.
in summary, all manufacturers are having issues now as they try to innovate. They all get parts from the same bin.
If you have problem with yours get them fixed under warranty. If no problems, just enjoy the ride, but don’t let these articles spoil your ownership experience.
At 180k miles it was totaled and turned out to be the most reliable and cheap to own car that I have ever had. During my 100k ownership I only changed water pump, radiator, tie rod ends, rear shocks, and harmonic balancer. Other items were all maintenance related (belts, fluids, etc.). In comparison my current Honda Odyssey is a nightmare.
in summary, all manufacturers are having issues now as they try to innovate. They all get parts from the same bin.
If you have problem with yours get them fixed under warranty. If no problems, just enjoy the ride, but don’t let these articles spoil your ownership experience.
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