Platinum Towing Experiences

[Lou Hamilton]

Ok, now you're getting into the dark arts of RV math that I still don't fully understand!

Brochure ("shipping") weight is 6013. Max cargo is 1587. Hitch weight is 690. Let's say we put in 1000lbs of cargo in the trailer, that makes it 7013lbs. 12% of which is 841. So we'd have sway issues? But even from the factory the trailer hitch weight of 690 is less than 12% of the shipping weight of 6013 (721).

Your best bet is to load it up as if you were traveling and then take it to the scales.

If it not busy, I would do one of just the Expedition loaded. This will give you an idea of the axle weights before the trailer is attached.

A second with the trailer connected. This will give you the tongue weight because you will see what the additional rear axle weight is.

Either go before or after with just you and your Expedition empty, but in your normal daily driving configuration (keep everything you normally have in your glove box, center console, rear area). This will give you your “updated” curb weight. You can use this new value to calculate your “new” payload value (GVWR - Curb weight = Payload).

I have done a ton of research and built a few spreadsheets to help me figure out different vehicles and trailers to see what I might really be able to tow.

There is a dedicated towing forum if you want to get into a really detailed discussion with a bunch of guys and gals who do a ton of towing on all kinds of trailers and campers.


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[shane_th_ee]

Your best bet is to load it up as if you were traveling and then take it to the scales.

If it not busy, I would do one of just the Expedition loaded. This will give you an idea of the axle weights before the trailer is attached.

A second with the trailer connected. This will give you the tongue weight because you will see what the additional rear axle weight is.

Either go before or after with just you and your Expedition empty, but in your normal daily driving configuration (keep everything you normally have in your glove box, center console, rear area). This will give you your “updated” curb weight. You can use this new value to calculate your “new” payload value (GVWR - Curb weight = Payload).

I have done a ton of research and built a few spreadsheets to help me figure out different vehicles and trailers to see what I might really be able to tow.

There is a dedicated towing forum if you want to get into a really detailed discussion with a bunch of guys and gals who do a ton of towing on all kinds of trailers and campers.


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But Fizzy (the OP) doesn’t have the trailer yet. In which case his best bet is to ask the owners forums/Facebook groups for the tongue weights of people who own the models he’s considering.

 

[Fizzy]

But Fizzy (the OP) doesn’t have the trailer yet. In which case his best bet is to ask the owners forums/Facebook groups for the tongue weights of people who own the models he’s considering.

Great point - I don’t want to buy it only to find out I need a different tow vehicle! But Lou’s process is a solid one once I get it to make sure it’s all balanced.

 

[Calidad]

Just two adults, and two pint sized kids. The roofbox is just for winter, to stuff the kids skis and snowboards in.

Two adults and 2 kids here. Also shopping ideas. Beyond the payload challenge is our experience with camp availability especially today where we have dropped a camp trip for an airbnb because the # of people RVing and car camping today has exploded no availability anywhere. . My current setup is a 4x6 trailer 12ft long. Our plan to upgrade has been put on hold given we wouldn’t be able to use it if we wanted to use it. Plus my max is 19ft so we can / could still easily fit in National Parks etc. For us the max tow Expedition was chosen for a few reasons not just the 9300lb. I predict a severe post COVID RV crash especially at the storage fees I’m hearing about along with pretty much zero availability for sites unless you book 6+ months out. Trailer size can be a big negative in where you can get a site especially today.

 

[shane_th_ee]

Two adults and 2 kids here. Also shopping ideas. Beyond the payload challenge is our experience with camp availability especially today where we have dropped a camp trip for an airbnb because the # of people RVing and car camping today has exploded no availability anywhere. . My current setup is a 4x6 trailer 12ft long. Our plan to upgrade has been put on hold given we wouldn’t be able to use it if we wanted to use it. Plus my max is 19ft so we can / could still easily fit in National Parks etc. For us the max tow Expedition was chosen for a few reasons not just the 9300lb. I predict a severe post COVID RV crash especially at the storage fees I’m hearing about along with pretty much zero availability for sites unless you book 6+ months out. Trailer size can be a big negative in where you can get a site especially today.

2 adults, 4 kids, 18’ box (22’ 3” coupler to bumper). This is one of several reasons why we went short. The shorter the rig, the more campsites there are. We can always take a site that’ll fit a longer trailer...

 

[Zig10]

I tow a 7500 lb. (actual weight) 35’ travel trailer with my 2020 Platinum Max. I agree with @Waterbeach in that you’ll hit the payload and/or GAWR limit before you hit the trailer limit. Power isn’t a problem at all. The issue I’ve had was with the softness of the rear suspension. After last year’s camping season I invested in a Hellwig rear sway bar and Sumo spring helpers. Hoping I’ll feel a difference when we take our first trip this year in a few weeks.

I tow a 7500 lb boat with my Limited and the first thing I bought after the first tow was a set of Sumo Springs. The following season I did the Helwig sway bar. With those in place it is a decent tow vehicle. Still would be better with air shocks, but at least it is stable at highway speeds now. I only do a couple thousand miles per year towing at speed with 5 people, so it meets my needs with the upgrades.

 

[Wayne Decker]

That's good to know! How do you find it on hills? Is it squirrely going down? Sluggish going up? Or comfortable all round?

No problems. Good power uphill, the tow/haul mode finds all the right shift points and does excellent engine braking on the down hills. It's a great tow vehicle and very comfortable.

 

[Jrparne]

We tow a 2800BH Grand Design. It’s 32 feet long and GVWR is 7995. Listen it’s big but the sway isn’t bad at all. People throw out so many numbers at you and percentages to stay under but listen the numbers don’t lie. Payload is where you run out. We pretty much max out our limited max with the family and the trailer. You have to be careful of your tongue weight because that directly eats at your payload and provides stability while towing. Out of the factory it was 630 tongue, but life’s up I’m pushing 800-900. Those front pass throughs have so much room in trailers this day in age but it is a balance of front and rear weight to balance younger weight and stability. For instance, if I put something really heavy up front I tend to balance it in the back. Then it’s an estimation game of about 11-12 percent tongue weight. I do utilize a curt better weigh Bluetooth scale. It works great and the math doesn’t lie. Still tweaking my hitch but my 4 point equalizer has 8 washers to transfer weight to the front and weight wise it is very balanced.


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[Lou Hamilton]

Great point - I don’t want to buy it only to find out I need a different tow vehicle! But Lou’s process is a solid one once I get it to make sure it’s all balanced.

You can figure out part of it before buying a camper. It will actually help you figure out if a camper you are looking at is too heavy.

Take the Expedition to the scales with what it ways as a daily driver (without you in it). This would be your CURB WEIGHT.

Take it again when it is packed up with you and your family and all cargo that you think would be in the Expedition when traveling with the camper. This will get you what the vehicle LOADED WEIGHT is.

This will allow you to figure out the remaining payload for the hitch.

GVWR - Curb Weight = Total Payload

GVWR - Loaded Weight = Remaining Payload

Also remember that the tongue weight listed by most manufacturers is without batteries (~70 lbs per battery) and propane (~40 pounds per 20 gal tank, ~55 pounds per 30 gal tank, and ~70 pounds per 40 gal tank). That needs to be added to what the manufacturers state the tongue weight is. To be honest, even that will be light because adding items in front of the axles inside the camper adds something to the tongue weight.

As an example, my campers empty tongue weight is about 250 pounds. Loaded with a single battery, a single 20 pound propane tank, two bikes on a tongue rack, and cargo in the front storage has increased my tongue weight to about 520 pounds. It might even be more if I did not have some weight in the rear cargo area and a few bins white traveling on the bed at the back of the camper.


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[bwhinnen]

We tow a 2800BH Grand Design. It’s 32 feet long and GVWR is 7995. Listen it’s big but the sway isn’t bad at all. People throw out so many numbers at you and percentages to stay under but listen the numbers don’t lie. Payload is where you run out. We pretty much max out our limited max with the family and the trailer. You have to be careful of your tongue weight because that directly eats at your payload and provides stability while towing. Out of the factory it was 630 tongue, but life’s up I’m pushing 800-900. Those front pass throughs have so much room in trailers this day in age but it is a balance of front and rear weight to balance younger weight and stability. For instance, if I put something really heavy up front I tend to balance it in the back. Then it’s an estimation game of about 11-12 percent tongue weight. I do utilize a curt better weigh Bluetooth scale. It works great and the math doesn’t lie. Still tweaking my hitch but my 4 point equalizer has 8 washers to transfer weight to the front and weight wise it is very balanced.


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I know this is Fizzy’s thread; have you weighed the entire setup at a CAT scale? Curious to see all the weights. We’ve been looking at a 2400BH to keep both length and weight down.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Lou Hamilton]

I grew up in a family who believed that you should not tow anything that exceeded 1.5 times the length of your tow vehicle.

For a SWB Expedition, that would equate to around 26 feet.

For a Max Expedition, that would equate to around 28 feet.


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[Zig10]

I grew up in a family who believed that you should not tow anything that exceeded 1.5 times the length of your tow vehicle.

For a SWB Expedition, that would equate to around 26 feet.

For a Max Expedition, that would equate to around 28 feet.


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There's a practical limit to that old rule of thumb, though. What do you tow a 35' boat with that is close to 43' on a trailer? Even a Peterbilt doesn't meet those requirements.

 

[Jrparne]

Well it just so happens on the way to the campground. Expy had about 600 lbs of people and stuff plus trailer. We also had a ton of water because the campground only has electric. Only the second trip but wd close to being dialed in.


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[Jrparne]

A 2400BH is a fantastic trailer, we figure the kids are small how and we have 6 years of small people before I don’t think this set up would work unless we took two cars. Which is totally doable as well.


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[bwhinnen]

Well it just so happens on the way to the campground. Expy had about 600 lbs of people and stuff plus trailer. We also had a ton of water because the campground only has electric. Only the second trip but wd close to being dialed in.

Thank you, Sir. Even without knowing your actual weights without the trailer hitched that helps. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with the Expy only carrying people and little else.

We only have a couple of years left with our son wanting to join us. He’s also built like a string bean, so that helps keep weight down in the Expy ourselves as we’ll be carrying some cats with us on our adventures.

Thanks!

 

[Jrparne]

Yeah we literally have 800 lbs left of payload in the trailer. This day in age all the kids in the car just need there entertainment, which is relatively light. We throw the canoe on top then put all of the canoe stuff in the trailer for transport to the campsite.


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[mwl001]

There's a practical limit to that old rule of thumb, though. What do you tow a 35' boat with that is close to 43' on a trailer? Even a Peterbilt doesn't meet those requirements.

There’s a few variables that make the length important here and not in the instances you mention: boats are easier to tow than huge rectangles because they are way more aerodynamic. Also towing something gooseneck or 5th wheel style is much more stable than as a bumper pull. Expeditions towing travel trailers meet neither exception.

 

[Lou Hamilton]

There's a practical limit to that old rule of thumb, though. What do you tow a 35' boat with that is close to 43' on a trailer? Even a Peterbilt doesn't meet those requirements.

But a Peterbilt is not a bumper tow. That is an entire different discussion. That is a good neck connection. I’m not sure if you can apply the same parameters to that scenario.

Never was a boat family, we did campers and construction trailers. I can’t say how towing a boat is similar or dissimilar from what I am used to.

I should have clarified what I am specifically familiar with and that it is a guideline and not a hard and fast rule that should be followed.


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[Zig10]

But a Peterbilt is not a bumper tow. That is an entire different discussion. That is a good neck connection. I’m not sure if you can apply the same parameters to that scenario.

Never was a boat family, we did campers and construction trailers. I can’t say how towing a boat is similar or dissimilar from what I am used to.

I should have clarified what I am specifically familiar with and that it is a guideline and not a hard and fast rule that should be followed.


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Point taken, but "bumper tow" wasn't mentioned in the original post, either.

And yes, having towed different types of trailers, a boat is definitely a more stable tow in my experience just because of the tongue length and location of the COM and wheels. That said, they all suck at highway speeds, and REALLY suck when it's windy. The sway bar upgrade helps a lot with both.

 

[mwl001]

A more complicated equation I learned (and use) is that you get 20ft of trailer for your first 110” of wheelbase, then you get another 12” of trailer for every 4” of additional wheelbase.

so 24.6ft for the short wheelbase or 26ft for the Max. Maybe a little conservative but not a bad thing.