Towing Advice Needed

[theblackpearl]

Hi folks - I own a 2020 RWD Expedition Max, without the HD Towing package - so 6300lbs tow capacity and 1600lb payload capacity (from the label on the door jab). I've read all 4th gen threads so far as well, using the search function, but want to get y'all's feedback.

I am looking at a trailer (Jayco 224 bh) with 4500lb dry weght, and 5500 GVWR.


Family weighs 500lbs. We'll mostly drive with the tanks empty, and for majority of the trips, I'll just carry one propane tank to shed some weight.

So with a Weight distribution hitch (Equal-i-zer 4 point), I am within spec. But I want to see if I can be comfortable with the tow.. Any advices? Should I downsize the trailer? Especially if I want to climb hills? Worried mostly about transmission temp and sway control etc.


As for upgrades (I will still be under spec for non-HD towing, but want to try and get as many HD Towing upgrades as possible):
- Ford OEM brake controller install
- Possibly shocks + sumo springs
- Powerstop truck towing brakes and rotors
- Better cooling - all 4th gens have trans cooler. But need beefier radiator. I wish there was more knowledge around here on beefing up the radiators (either from the HD towing package or aftermarket). I read all the threads here, but looks like no one has done anythng

The larger real axles and 3.73 diff - well I cannot change that. But I will be within payload and towing specs. So hopefully not an issue

 

[Calidad]

Get a smaller trailer!! 50/80 rule especially when you don’t have the additional cooling systems. Dry weight 50% or less your max so 3100 dry weight. 80% your max loaded 5000lbs loaded. Even my heavy Tow Exp, for camping I shoot for 20-22ft max box trailer length they all tow horribly bad compared to other trailer types I tow. The longer they are the worse they are in towing quality. Cooling with these box trailers is about wind drag vs speeds not really about weight. My horse trailer weighs far more than a 20ft Geopro but its shape and road manners are massively superior to the geopro.

As for camping? Camping is all about toys and gear each of my family members 4 typically have 40-50lbs each in shoes, clothing etc. Not counting bikes, water toys etc. We haul water because we don’t “camp” where hookups exist.

 

[theblackpearl]

Fair - I am coming to the same conclusion to go for a smaller trailer. I might not go as low as 3100 dry, but end up at 3500 dry. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[wakeboarder]

At least one person has successfully installed a transmission cooler. That would take care of any additional cooling that you may need.

Transmission Cooler for 2018 Expedition/Navigator 4x4

Hi: Does anyone have a recommendation of a transmission cooler for a 2018 Expedition/Navigator 4x4 without the tow package? I drive a Navigator but am not seeing anything for Navs specifically, so I’m asking for Expeditions too. My local shop wasn’t a huge fan of some of the after market...

www.expeditionforum.com

 

[jjscsix]

I know this does not answer your question specifically, but…. We have a 2023 Platinum with the heavy dut tow package. At the same time we bought a 33’ travel trailer with a 6800# dry weight and of course a weight equalizing hitch.

Twice we have gone for a long weekend about 40 miles from home. Sounds like not much, but we live in the hill country of Texas and have dealt with some pretty big hills in 100 degree heat.

It will easily maintain 70 mph plus without even realizing it. I was trying to keep the speed no more than 65.

 

[duneslider]

I think you will be fine with that trailer. Not sure what kind of trips you are planning and how much climbing you will be doing though. You technically are within spec and I think you will be fine. Especially if you have realistic expectations about long grades.

The equalizer is a good hitch and any brake controller is fine but the factory one does look nice.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

you almost never tow the empty trailer, except maybe the day it goes home.

I *always* base my towing weights on the MAXIMUM loaded weight of the trailer.

also pay attention to your GCWR, which is gross combined weight thats the loaded SUV + loaded trailer.

the tongue weight plus the weight of the hitching equipment has to be considered as part of the truck payload.

I have a 2019 Expy Limited Stealth, with the HD tow. While the maximum tow capacity is, IIRC, 9300 lbs, if I was towing that much, with the minimal safe 10% tongue weight of 930 lbs, I'd be down to 500 or 600 lbs of payload. The GCWR of 15300 lbs, also restricts the payload with a maximum trailer.

I wouldn't want to tow much over a 6000-7000 lb trailer on a regular basis, and for long distances, even with the HD tow.... My trailer is 4500 lbs GWR.

without the HD tow, I'd not want to go over my 4500 lb 21' molded fiberglass Escape....

occasional tows, whole different story. just make sure you don't exceed your GCWR or axle weights.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

oh, your curb weight should be approximately the GVWR on the weight sticker minus the max payload on the tire sticker.

like here's my sticker,


my GWVR is 7450 lbs. my payload is 1504 lbs. so my trucks' curb weight without any added stuff, is 7450-1504 = 5946 lbs. a non-HD expedition has a GCWR around 12300 lbs...

so if that non-HD truck is towing a max 6000 lb trailer, the GCWR is 5946+6000 lbs == 11946, which would mean, you only have 12300 - 11946 = 354 lbs available payload. my wife and I exceed that before we pack anything.

 

[theblackpearl]

the GVWR of the trailer is only 5500. So even in your math I have another 500left. And I think max tow for me is 6300

 

[Left Coast Geek]

The GCWR should be listed on a page in the Ford 20XX Towing Guide ... like, this is the table from the 2019 towing guide...



so my non-MAX 4x4 with HD tow (the 3.73 axle), has a GCWR of 15500. the last post, I was intentionally mixing up numbers that were specific with my Expedition with generic numbers for a non-HD

 

[Left Coast Geek]

the GVWR of the trailer is only 5500. So even in your math I have another 500left. And I think max tow for me is 6300

is it a 4x4 or 4x2 ? the GCWR is 12500 for a 4x2 and 12400 for a 4x4. but I'd also need to know your GVWR and Payload numbers from your door frame sticker, as those are vehicle specific. Lets pretend those are 7450 and 1504 (like mine), so... 'curb weight' of about 5950, so your GCWR of 12500 - curb weight = 6550, so with a 5500 max trailer, you have about 1000 lbs of payload, which is also about right because of that 5500 lb trailer, at least 550 lbs (10%) is on the hitch, if its well balanced, and 550 lbs hitch subtracted from the 1500 lb payload, leaves about 1000 lbs. 3-4 big guys would put you over the limit.

Please run these same numbers with your actual GVWR and payload ...

 

[theblackpearl]

Here are my specs. How would I find the curb weight?

 

[Calidad]

Just a warning big box trailers run 18-23% tongue weight typically for badly needed stability. The 10% generic tongue weight rule is only applicable to less boxy more stable trailers like boats, tent trailers and flat utility trailers. Its very typical to see 4000lb max rv box trailers running 550lbs on the tongue or more.

 

[theblackpearl]

I accounted for 750 tongue. And 500 family. Still left me with about 350lb buffer.

 

[sjwhiteley]

I believe you will be fine. Mine weighs 4400lbs (dry). WDH, sumo ‘springs’ (the rubber donuts). While I have not done much towing lately, when I did, it was stable and ran smooth.

 

[theblackpearl]

I believe you will be fine. Mine weighs 4400lbs (dry). WDH, sumo ‘springs’ (the rubber donuts). While I have not done much towing lately, when I did, it was stable and ran smooth.

Thanks. So yours does not have the tow package too ? Outside of the sumo springs did you make any other updates ?

 

[Calidad]

I know this does not answer your question specifically, but…. We have a 2023 Platinum with the heavy dut tow package. At the same time we bought a 33’ travel trailer with a 6800# dry weight and of course a weight equalizing hitch.

Twice we have gone for a long weekend about 40 miles from home. Sounds like not much, but we live in the hill country of Texas and have dealt with some pretty big hills in 100 degree heat.

It will easily maintain 70 mph plus without even realizing it. I was trying to keep the speed no more than 65.

I read that most towable RV owners don’t go more than 100 miles given how poor these trailers tow. I can definitely attest that these boxes are by far the worst towing trailers I have experienced. Our target trips are 2700 mile round trips. Where towing quality of the trailer is pretty important. All modern trucks will drag a box of garbage over legal limits. That doesn’t mean it’s enjoyable.

 

[Jarred]

Hi folks - I own a 2020 RWD Expedition Max, without the HD Towing package - so 6300lbs tow capacity and 1600lb payload capacity (from the label on the door jab). I've read all 4th gen threads so far as well, using the search function, but want to get y'all's feedback.

I am looking at a trailer (Jayco 224 bh) with 4500lb dry weght, and 5500 GVWR.


Family weighs 500lbs. We'll mostly drive with the tanks empty, and for majority of the trips, I'll just carry one propane tank to shed some weight.

So with a Weight distribution hitch (Equal-i-zer 4 point), I am within spec. But I want to see if I can be comfortable with the tow.. Any advices? Should I downsize the trailer? Especially if I want to climb hills? Worried mostly about transmission temp and sway control etc.


As for upgrades (I will still be under spec for non-HD towing, but want to try and get as many HD Towing upgrades as possible):
- Ford OEM brake controller install
- Possibly shocks + sumo springs
- Powerstop truck towing brakes and rotors
- Better cooling - all 4th gens have trans cooler. But need beefier radiator. I wish there was more knowledge around here on beefing up the radiators (either from the HD towing package or aftermarket). I read all the threads here, but looks like no one has done anythng

The larger real axles and 3.73 diff - well I cannot change that. But I will be within payload and towing specs. So hopefully not an issue

That trailer is totally fine for your vehicle. I have the same truck with max tow and have a significantly heavier trailer. For tow comfort you’ll probably want better tires with more firm sidewalls and aired up closer to max. I went with some continentals. I also did rear sumo springs and those are super easy to install. The bilstein 5100 shocks made a big difference as well. Obviously you need the break controller. I would think for towing comfort the tires and suspension would be higher priority than the radiator but that’s my opinion. My biggest issue towing was the ultra soft rear suspension and tires. I also went with the Andersen hitch to save weight.

 

[ryanpe]

I've been towing my Lance 1985 with my 2021 Limited w/HD tow pkg w/WDH for over 22,000 miles. I focus on the 1605 payload number vs my 9200 tow limit . My Lance's GVWR is 5800 and usually tow it near the limit (6010# was max from 2 Cat scales). However, when you add tongue weight, passengers and cargo my axle capacity is at 95.8% (rear) and 87.7% (front) of the vehicles rating. So I'm well below my towing capacity (65%) but at max on axle payload rating. That being said, my expo tows this load like a rock star. Leaky front CCD shock was the only issue w/45K on the truck (48.8% of that towing the Lance). We live in the rockies @7000 ft so mountain towing is 50% of the total. I average 10.4 mpg while towing using 91 octane.

 

[LG_123]

I also agree that you’ll be fine. The payload is always the limiting factor and it sounds like you’re comfortably inside the limits. There’s quite a bit of buffer built into Ford’s recommended limits so I wouldn’t skimp on bringing enough propane and water in the trailer.

The absolute max payload rating is what you’ll see on the tires; those are limits I wouldn’t encroach on but the numbers on the door jam are more like guidelines.

Many here will say that’s a dangerous opinion but I’ve reached it based on a lot of research and tested it from coast to coast.