Conflicted

[dlcorbett]

Good morning. I'm writing this in a seedy hotel room, not able to sleep because I'm conflicted. If you seen my previous write ups, Ive written about an issue with my navigator getting a powertrain fault error and cutting off power during our road trips. Last time this happened was in June on both legs and before this, a couple month's prior with my wife and family while i was deployed. After being told by multiple dealers that they cant find an issue, was able to get a "local" dealer to look at it and they changed a sensor that conveniently wasn't covered under my warranty. No problems since, well until tonight. It happened again, not even an hour distance from the last time it happened. However it happened at midnight, so no open dealer or service shop, no lincoln concierge, and limited support from roadside assistance. What's more odd is that the ride to our destination, it was perfect. Last few times, it happened to and from the destination. Luckily, we were less than a mile from a hotel, so let it sit, drove there and parked it. Taking it to a dealer close by and hopefully get some help. It's hard to get diagnosed because it always happens hours from my home, seemingly at random, day/night, wet/dry and when I get it to a dealer, the warning lights disappear as do the codes. The only constant, it happens after 10 or so hours of drive time, regardless of fuel stops and bathroom breaks. And yes, it's being turned off during those stops and breaks.

Now for the conflicted part. I love the truck, but my trust in it is gone. This is the 4th time it has happened, with no answers as to why it's happening. Finally got a "fix" just for it to happen AGAIN. As noted, i get its probably hard to diagnose, but that's not my fault. I bought it for a reason and when i use it for that purpose, it cant fulfill its duty as intended. Of all the vehicles I owned, this is the only one that can't make this trip safely. Hell, I had an 09 navigator that I bought with 100k miles on it. In the 3 years and 65k miles we had it, not once did it do this, and the distance it was traveling was even greater (1700 instead of the current 1200 one way miles). Idk what to do. It's not a good time to replace it even if I wanted to, but then the question is, with what? I'm so annoyed and befuddled, I just want the damn thing fixed. I have absolutely no other issues with it, but the one issue I have is becoming an huge inconvenience, unsafe(its shutting off power and controls at highway speeds), and possibly a money sink. I wanted to trade it when it was first doing this but I trusted the dealer and couldn't find anything I liked nearly as much. I don't want to start searching, but its looking like I may need to. So conflicted and heartbroken...sorry for the early morning rant.

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

Has the electronic throttle body control been replaced?

 

[dlcorbett]

No it has not. Service did not bring that up as a fix when they had it for a week.

 

[5280tunage]

Sorry to hear about your issues, your posts have always been helpful and I wish I could help more. For me personally, this is why I started carrying my Autozone special code reader with me. So that if I were on a long trip I could pull over and reset the codes easily and get back on the road. I know many will say that defeats the systems in place, but my issue was related to simply putting on a CAI. Finally put the redirect tube in the turbo intake to help but it still happens occasionally during heavy acceleration.

At this point, the only thing I could suggest would be a call to Ford, which may be worse than trying to exit a black hole, but be armed with your service request numbers and tell them the situation.

 

[JimW]

I have had the powertrain fault error at least 4 times. No fix at my dealer either. I had reduced power but was still able to drive. I was able to stop and turn off the vehicle to turn off the code.

 

[BMW2FORD]

Sad to hear it sounds like no one at the dealer wants to seriously look into what’s happening. Id try another dealer or other two options are to load Forscan on a lap top and get a license / OBD connector or get a cheap Harbor Freight $30 code reader. I bet there’s faults stored to work with. I’d rather go the Forscan option since you can then add things like the numeric coolant value above the bar graph, honk in exit with key and stuff like that as well. Once you see what codes are stored it’s not too hard to fix it or have peace of mind knowing what it is and if it’s going to leave you stranded or not.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

sadly, warranties don't pay for diagnostic time. very few shops have a proper diagnostician on hand. I occasionally watch a youtube channel by a freelance diagnostician[*], he can spend 5 or 10 hours tracking down the root cause of an obscure problem, and many times, its a 'no parts' repair. the worst are the cars which have had the 'parts cannon' fired multiple times using cheap aftermarket parts so there's MORE problems hiding the original problem.


[*] - https://www.youtube.com/@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics/featured

 

[rd618]

Sorry to hear this. ESP with the family on an already long ride.
I have a Bluetooth MX+ Obd adapter and forscan on my phone. I get a bunch of error messages that also seem to magically disappear. At least this way I have some tracking and history of them and can reset if needed.
My 2 cents, piece of mind and safety is worth more than a vehicle. You might take a bath getting into something new, consider it a loss/bad investment and focus on the future. There are other trucks out there that are decent and probably more reliable. In the back of your mind you’ll never trust taking it on a long trip, and what if you’re not the one driving. Sucks for sure, but without a “ah we found the issue” resolution id consider something else.

 

[5280tunage]

I don't know @rd618, I'm not convinced there is much better out there right now. I'm always keeping an eye just in case mine craps out. But seriously, for this size, towing capabilities, there isn't much out there. I love some things about the Sequoia but there are things I really dislike, the forced hybrid, the awful trunk space, and even the new TT for Toyo has had it's issues. The GM platform is probably the closest in capabilities but even those have had their issues. I do love the availability of airbags in that line though. Not to mention that I truly love the forced induction at altitude. I was skeptical, this was the first non-V8 I've had in 20 years. But granted that lack of technology can also mean better reliability, but 6 and 1/2 dozen. The quality really doesn't seem to be getting any better though in Ford.

 

[rd618]

I don't know @rd618, I'm not convinced there is much better out there right now. I'm always keeping an eye just in case mine craps out. But seriously, for this size, towing capabilities, there isn't much out there. I love some things about the Sequoia but there are things I really dislike, the forced hybrid, the awful trunk space, and even the new TT for Toyo has had it's issues. The GM platform is probably the closest in capabilities but even those have had their issues. I do love the availability of airbags in that line though. Not to mention that I truly love the forced induction at altitude. I was skeptical, this was the first non-V8 I've had in 20 years. But granted that lack of technology can also mean better reliability, but 6 and 1/2 dozen. The quality really doesn't seem to be getting any better though in Ford.

Not much better out there. But there are alternatives. Can still stay with ford but their quality hasn’t improved, their dealer repairs are becoming a hassle too. There isn't a brand I'm excited about, all have their flaws.

 

[dlcorbett]

I like the fords because, at the time, they were the best looking and balanced cargo, passenger room and ride and handling better than anything else on the market. We drive to tx alot. My mother in law likes to give us huge items that fill up the cargo bay pretty quickly. We did this drive with the cx9, and it was pretty difficult with everything we took, as well as putting too many miles on the lease. The expy was great when we had it, so we upgraded to the nav, which outside of this issue, has mainly been phenomenal. It has some of the best seats, the ride is mostly good, the sound system is phenomenal, and for 450hp, going 450 miles to empty most fill ups is great. And it takes regular gas as a plus. Perhaps its best feature though, the center console. The set up for the console is hugely underrated, we love the room and nooks it provided for phones, wires, snacks, and misc items. Way better than the expy set up and anything we have been in really. I have def thought about alternatives. These are my thoughts on those:

Gms- for the current gen, i like the ride and looks as well as space, but i don't like the Tahoe interior, they don't have adjustable pedals which is a must for my wife, and the seats are Terrible esp the third row. The previous gens are worse on every level except for looks.

Jeep- I also like the ride and space of these, and the sec and third rows are roomy and comfy like the fords. However, they are beautifully hideous, tech has a steep learning curve, the front seats are too thin, it's missing some convenience features, the reliability is the worse of the big three, and the steep price on any with decent miles, esp the grand version.

Nissan- I like the powertrain, premium feel, and cushioned ride, but the sec row is fixed, third row mediocre, poor gas mileage, flat seats, and a new one is due to be released soon.

Toyota - the previous gen sequoia is god ugly and outdated, the previous gen lx570 is steeply overpriced and has poor third row. This is carried over to the new gen sequoia and lx600 (cant afford it anyway lol damn military), poor third row, fixed second row, but I haven't driven it so I can't speak on the drive or fuel.

I was already trying to hold out on the 5th gen fords, but idk if i want another ford now. I thought about a used BMW x7 or mb gls, but the Interior space is hugely compromised. This is my sentiments for crossovers as well. My wife's cx9 drives great and is pretty comfy in the first row, but not in the others. We have been in the highlander, palisade, telluride, grand cherokee and some lux variants, and they just don't have the feel of a fs suv in terms of room, ride, and seats.

 

[5280tunage]

yeah, I love the grand wagoneer and the Hurricane motor is pretty phenomenal. Only thing out there that can really compete with this (although the toyota turbo hybrid is nothing to flinch at). I've always been a Jeep guy, and yes, their quality too has suffered but one thing that always took care of me was the drivetrains. My 4.0, 5.2, and the 5.7L Hemi coupled with strong transfer cases always took care of me. And yeah, I'm sure there are 10 people that would say the opposite. But I can't stomach the price of those things, to get that motor, yeah write. The L version is nuts, talk about space and comfort. But I'd rather buy a piece of land I can leave my kids!

 

[XeBeast]

Sounds like a good subject to talk to Corporate about.

 

[JasonH]

yeah, I love the grand wagoneer and the Hurricane motor is pretty phenomenal. ... But I can't stomach the price of those things, to get that motor, yeah write. The L version is nuts, talk about space and comfort. But I'd rather buy a piece of land I can leave my kids!

For 2023, the Hurricane is the standard engine across all versions except the base Grand Wagoneer. The Wagoneer starts in the low $60,000 range and moves up from there, same as the Expedition and Navigator. There are already used ones available on the used market at substantial discount from MSRP. The Grand Wagoneer has a gorgeous interior, but the exterior never did it for me. Very curious to see what the next Navigator looks like because the current generation still looks good but will be replaced soon.

 

[5280tunage]

@JasonH - maybe things have changed but the hurricane TT I6 was only available standard on the L's at launch, and available as on option on the non-L models. that immediately put it inline with the more expensive trims. Same difference though, to get something similar in features to the plati, you need to be at roughly the series 3, so with the hurricane and S3, you're at starting place of around $80k. The Grand might be a bit more like the Navi in plushness, but you might be able to back down to the Obsidian and then bam, you're at over 100k.

 

[T-Rex2020]

Hello,
Brand new to the forum and new to Ford. I bought a 2015 Lincoln Navigator from Carmax and had the same issues. 2nd time I drove it, the car stalled. Luckily, Carmax took the Navi back after spending 28 days at Lincoln. The dealership told me it was rodents that got to the electrical towards the end. Sorry, this happened to you. I love my new 2020 Expedition Max Limited so far.

 

[JasonH]

@JasonH - maybe things have changed but the hurricane TT I6 was only available standard on the L's at launch, and available as on option on the non-L models. that immediately put it inline with the more expensive trims. Same difference though, to get something similar in features to the plati, you need to be at roughly the series 3, so with the hurricane and S3, you're at starting place of around $80k. The Grand might be a bit more like the Navi in plushness, but you might be able to back down to the Obsidian and then bam, you're at over 100k.

They're migrating away from the 6.4, probably terrible for CAFE. For 2023, the 6.4 is only in the base with the 3.0T as an option. I didn't check the brochure for 2024. All these manufacturers are chasing the same market. Take a basic 40k pickup and gussy it up for people that like to lease pricey luxury vehicles. Nice fat margins. I like to wait until they're half off, which only takes 3 to 5 years. Even more so now that we don't drive the Expedition daily. Hard to spend 70k+ on a vehicle that doesn't move for five or six days a week.

 

[Deadman]

It sounds like your mind is made up already..... If you don't trust the vehicle then there is no reason to keep it. It sounds like a PITA to me for your situations. Call me spoiled, but I'd dump it if they can't fix it this time. I dumped the Navigator my wife had because it was a POS as well. Always was something with it.

 

[dlcorbett]

I feel you. It sux because the nav is the best vehicle I've ever owned or driven so far.

 

[rd618]

I feel you. It sux because the nav is the best vehicle I've ever owned or driven so far.

Get another one, big picture, they are overall reliable vehicles.