13-14 3v 5.4L engines. Cam phaser or Rocker issues?

[1exped]

I am checking out a 13 EL Lim with about 135K, asking 20K. Are there still issues with cam phasers for those years? The salesman said 100% no.

I listened by a wall, sounded a bit like the Explorer I have now when it had an exhaust leak.

The salesman said there is nothing wrong with it.

 

[Machete]

Oh hell yes. If you do more research you’ll see the 5.4’s (and all variable cam timing Ford engines) have issues w phasers, cam chains, chain guides made of plastic, and stretched cam chains.

The 3v 5.4 is more notorious for these common failures.

Know when a car salesman is lying?

Do your searches.

 

[07navi]

I am checking out a 13 EL Lim with about 135K, asking 20K. Are there still issues with cam phasers for those years? The salesman said 100% no.

I listened by a wall, sounded a bit like the Explorer I have now when it had an exhaust leak.

The salesman said there is nothing wrong with it.

I don't think they were fixed until the eco 6 came out. There is something wrong with it though, tell him you will buy it if he fixes the tick. My 07 has 138k on it and sounds like a Rolex.

 

[1exped]

Oh hell yes. If you do more research you’ll see the 5.4’s (and all variable cam timing Ford engines) have issues w phasers, cam chains, chain guides made of plastic, and stretched cam chains.

The 3v 5.4 is more notorious for these common failures.

Know when a car salesman is lying?

Do your searches.

Thanks for the reply
I did searches, seems like it is an 04-08 problem MOSTLY. Rare after that, but who knows. I don't see many oil change records either. Don't mean it wasn't done, but who knows...

 

[1exped]

I don't think they were fixed until the eco 6 came out. There is something wrong with it though, tell him you will buy it if he fixes the tick. My 07 has 138k on it and sounds like a Rolex.

Thanks for the reply.
I thought the exhaust manifold issue was resolved in later years, I guess not

 

[07navi]

Oh hell yes. If you do more research you’ll see the 5.4’s (and all variable cam timing Ford engines) have issues w phasers, cam chains, chain guides made of plastic, and stretched cam chains.

The 3v 5.4 is more notorious for these common failures.

Know when a car salesman is lying?

Do your searches.

Actually chains don't stretch and they wear very little. You didn't mention the tensioners which is the main problem, also plastic is the best material and will last forever unless you neglect the tensioners. Salesmen never lie.....maybe wrong there, lol.

 

[1exped]

I asked a Ford Dealer, they said to have an engine in mind if you don't know the service history. They said they do 5.4L's 3Vs every day. Usually they swap in a Ford Reman. Are there ones that have no problems? Sure. But he said you are welcome to come down this week to see some carnage.

 

[JExpedition07]

Dealer techs throw engines at everything because they have no clue how to fix them or how they operate. “Have an engine lined up”...what a clown. They also don’t fix them right is because they want the commission on that $8,000 job...

 

[mnachreiner86]

Phaser issues in all the 3 valves. They’re seeing some in the 5.0 coyotes as well.


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[Boostedbus]

My opinion is they are all fine engines if they are maintained properly with oil and filter changes. They are more sensitive to needing clean oil for tensioners to work properly. They aren’t as forgiving as an old 300 straight six is when it comes to oil changes that’s for sure. Find one with good maintenance records and you’ll be fine.

 

[07navi]

My opinion is they are all fine engines if they are maintained properly with oil and filter changes. They are more sensitive to needing clean oil for tensioners to work properly. They aren’t as forgiving as an old 300 straight six is when it comes to oil changes that’s for sure. Find one with good maintenance records and you’ll be fine.

I agree, even if the phasers start knocking they aren't that hard to replace. Clean oil with enough pressure seems to be the main ingredient. Throwing engines at them makes no sense to me.

 

[Machete]

I asked a Ford Dealer, they said to have an engine in mind if you don't know the service history. They said they do 5.4L's 3Vs every day. Usually they swap in a Ford Reman. Are there ones that have no problems? Sure. But he said you are welcome to come down this week to see some carnage.

I can attest to the same a service writer I’ve used for 10 years told me the exact same thing. He invited me to look at the 5.4’s they’re rebuilding and swapping. They to the phaser job every day including on certain year 5.0’s!

 

[Machete]

From watching fordmacaluco videos it appears one of the major weak points is the oil pump. Which is why he uses Melling pumps when he does the job.

 

[1exped]

From the reviews Exped looks like a very reliable truck.

From watching fordmacaluco videos it appears one of the major weak points is the oil pump. Which is why he uses Melling pumps when he does the job.

My research show there is a chain of events -
2 cent The tensioner seal starts to leak (I believe it is the same part as the older 2V, which never had this problem. They have a machined seal).
tensioner don't keep good tension on the chain, and that can damage the guides
Oil pressure is lowered for the top of the engine, more the right cyl bank
The cam phasers lose pressure and start to destruct.
Then the cam and bearings(Semi circle head surface) get destroyed. There is no cam bearing, so that usually means the head is trashed.
By the time this happens, there is lots of metal in the engine, and it is worth scrap.
There are also problems with the rockers. It isn't the best quality part, combined with low oil pressure, they can self destruct. TSB on every 4.6L/5.4L 3V.

The ford place told me if you do buy the truck and are handy, replace all the rockers, the phasers and maybe the tensioner too if you plan on keeping it a long time. Use ford parts

They also told me to use Pennzoil Platinum ultra 5w-30.

An oil pump helps but it is a bandaid solution.

https://www.motor.com/wp-content/uploads/O-the-Troubles-Ive-Seen-Nov-2013.pdf
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2014/SB-10056148-6661.pdf
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10143079-9999.pdf

 

[07navi]

From the reviews Exped looks like a very reliable truck.

My research show there is a chain of events -
2 cent The tensioner seal starts to leak (I believe it is the same part as the older 2V, which never had this problem. They have a machined seal).
tensioner don't keep good tension on the chain, and that can damage the guides
Oil pressure is lowered for the top of the engine, more the right cyl bank
The cam phasers lose pressure and start to destruct.
Then the cam and bearings(Semi circle head surface) get destroyed. There is no cam bearing, so that usually means the head is trashed.
By the time this happens, there is lots of metal in the engine, and it is worth scrap.
There are also problems with the rockers. It isn't the best quality part, combined with low oil pressure, they can self destruct. TSB on every 4.6L/5.4L 3V.

The ford place told me if you do buy the truck and are handy, replace all the rockers, the phasers and maybe the tensioner too if you plan on keeping it a long time. Use ford parts

They also told me to use Pennzoil Platinum ultra 5w-30.

An oil pump helps but it is a bandaid solution.

https://www.motor.com/wp-content/uploads/O-the-Troubles-Ive-Seen-Nov-2013.pdf
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2014/SB-10056148-6661.pdf
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10143079-9999.pdf

All that CAN happen but you would have to let it go for a long time while listening to all the carnage, also 2v engines don't all have the all metal tensioners (mine didn't either and the O ring went south). I think the tensioner design was the main culprit on these engines; they start leaking, there is no real oil gauge to know, and then it all goes bad. That's why I put a gauge in mine and it has 35 psi with hot oil, in gear, idling, with the AC turned off, and it purrs like a kitten with 140k miles. I did a thread on installing one if anyone is interested.

 

[Machete]

My thing is I’m going to be buying something that will have a hundo or close to it on mileage then drive it 20-30k a year so I don’t want to have to pay for a phaser job while the truck is in service.

I need to run a vehicle that’s on the highway almost constantly every week w some semblance of reliability like my 1st gen which clocks in today at 212,*** and runs strong and smooth.

 

[1exped]

All that CAN happen but you would have to let it go for a long time while listening to all the carnage, also 2v engines don't all have the all metal tensioners (mine didn't either and the O ring went south). I think the tensioner design was the main culprit on these engines; they start leaking, there is no real oil gauge to know, and then it all goes bad. That's why I put a gauge in mine and it has 35 psi with hot oil, in gear, idling, with the AC turned off, and it purrs like a kitten with 140k miles. I did a thread on installing one if anyone is interested.

One little problem - you could have good oil pressure at the filter, but if there are leak paths far upstream you may have no oil in the cams. I believe this could be the case. But 35psi sounds healthy. I have an older (mid-90s) explorer, I was able to get a motorcraft sender part and the gauge responds with oil pressure (no numbers, but you could easily estimate). I think though shortly after all Ford oil gauges are digital needles pretty much.

 

[1exped]

My thing is I’m going to be buying something that will have a hundo or close to it on mileage then drive it 20-30k a year so I don’t want to have to pay for a phaser job while the truck is in service.

I need to run a vehicle that’s on the highway almost constantly every week w some semblance of reliability like my 1st gen which clocks in today at 212,*** and runs strong and smooth.

Except for blown plugs the 2v is pretty indestructible. Those are the crown vic engines. 5.4 is just a larger block.

And a cam phaser system could be done right, Lexus and Toyota have v6 and v8 engines with a similar setup, a phaser failure is unheard of.

 

[07navi]

Except for blown plugs the 2v is pretty indestructible. Those are the crown vic engines. 5.4 is just a larger block.

And a cam phaser system could be done right, Lexus and Toyota have v6 and v8 engines with a similar setup, a phaser failure is unheard of.

It's mainly just the locating pin in the phasers that get worn and make a lot of racket and they will do that for a long time if you don't mind the noise. The phasers aren't really that big of a job to change anyway. Yea, the Crown Vic had a 4.6 and the 2v did blow plugs out the top (ask me how I know).

 

[rwmorrisonjr]

One little problem - you could have good oil pressure at the filter, but if there are leak paths far upstream you may have no oil in the cams. I believe this could be the case. But 35psi sounds healthy. I have an older (mid-90s) explorer, I was able to get a motorcraft sender part and the gauge responds with oil pressure (no numbers, but you could easily estimate). I think though shortly after all Ford oil gauges are digital needles pretty much.

Do you have a part number for the sender part?