'20 rattling waste gate?

[Soliyou]

I disagree with you, my Navigator was over 100k, it sounds like shit when at the bank drivethru.

I feel ford buys cheap widgets in china, China sends the widgets to Mexico, Mexico assembles the part, Mexico send the part to the UAW to install.

Its all a shit show.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a happy camper as I am preparing to deal with 4wd issues right now (waiting until COVID ).

It sucks that the NVH engineers let that go claiming it is normal noise, but what I am saying is that it may be just noise with no negative effects on the turbo life span (I am not an expert though).

 

[5280tunage]

Maybe. I hate the noise, but most metallurgists know that metal wears down just like any material. Metal slapping on metal thousands and thousands of times will likely wear down over time. So what happens when I hit a high mileage and lifespan (if I make it there), the noise gets worse, or better yet the hinge or something else craps out and causes a turbo failure? Maybe I'll still be in my extended warranty, maybe not. Super frustrating that you can slap a "normal" slogan on something that simply isn't. Again, if it was normal, I would expect it to happen on every EcoBoost 3.5 out there.

 

[5280tunage]

Try small claims court.

Small Claims? As with any brand now, when you buy a vehicle and sign the owner docs, you essentially relinquish your ability to do just about anything. In fact, many of the read essentially, you follow this prescriptive process or we can reverse sue for liable etc. You'd likely lose as well, so then you're likely responsible for legal fees on both sides. Just about everything ends up having to through arbitration which you likely pay for as well. Not sure if you'd lose more trying that or just ditching the vehicle and taking the massive depreciation losses. The proverbial rock and hard place.

 

[5280tunage]

Alright, real fast, just talked to Ford customer care and the "engineer" put in his final verdict and they are not replacing the turbos. I had asked for escalation and apparently Ford doesn't have an escalation path for technical/engineering issues and only the one engineer that's working the hotline case will work on it because they are "assigned" to the issue. I'm waiting for everything in writing, but as I said before, I'm super disappointed. I'm starting to regret paying this much for a Ford, not to say that other manufacturers would be any better, but I know that when I escalated issues with Jeep on my last vehicle, they actually tried. They sent 3 engineers out from Detroit to look at the issue, and we worked on it together. What a bummer, I realize others have had different outcomes, but this is ******.

 

[DWs-TTEB]

Sorry to hear. Now I’m counting my blessings for getting my turbo replaced this past September. It rattled.

 

[stefan gimenez]

My 18’ does it every cold morning on initial start up. I usually auto start the truck and I can hear it from my house! It does go away and I know they will not cover it under warranty. and since I only have the 100000k powertrain left I am not paying out of pocket. just curious the long term effects because these truck cost to much to keep throwing away every 4 years for another.

 

[Jon1985]

I hear so much bad crap about these eco-boost engines I won’t ever buy a Ford Vehicles without the V8 5.0 option or the V6 turbo Diesel engine honestly don’t know why this isn’t a option specially on the expedition . I’ve heard the V8 5.0 gets better gas mileage then these V-6 turbo charged engines and their more reliable .

 

[NIckS]

The 5.0 V8 isn’t a bastion of reliability anymore either. Just google Ford V8 oil consumption

 

[mwl001]

You also give back some torque to get the V8 and whatever mileage increase you might see. 2.7 ecoboost has same torque as the Coyote if that matters as much as number of cylinders/lack of turbochargers.

 

[5280tunage]

Quick update again, finally heard back from a supervisor within customer care. He is initiating a process internally called a "Good faith review" to see if Ford is willing to do anything with the rattling turbos. I explained that Ford really should show new customers the TSB about rattles being normal, prior to customers signing the owner agreement during a purchase. Honestly, if you're product design allows for parts to functionally start rattling over time, customers should know that. Especially if the manufacturer just brushes their hands together and says "meh, that's normal and to be expected", we should all know.

I've thought about reporting it to some consumer agencies, as it really feels pretty shady that a company can just create a document that says this problem is normal. What's next? Exhaust leaks are normal? the soggy wet passenger compartments are normal (even though we had another forum member recently write it's often due to Kentucky assembly line workers not installing plugs)? We'll see what they say. The supervisor did say that in these cases they often try to offer ESP's, I replied, I already bought your most expensive ESP. What I really want is in writing that if the Turbo's do fail, as metal slapping against metal (making the noise) will eventually fail, that I won't have trouble getting them replaced.

 

[DWs-TTEB]

Get'em 5280Tunage!

 

[5280tunage]

oh my, so this gets funnier and funnier. So I heard back today, from one of the customer service reps, of course not the supervisor that I last talked to, but now it seems they aren't even sure what they told me. This guy asked me if I really wanted to proceed with buy back. I explained no, not without a heck of a lot more of a conversation. Specifically, I said the supervisor told me the good faith review was to determine if they can replace the damn turbos. That's all. $2500 in warranty work, but he's saying that means they were initiating the buy back review process.

So my god, anyone here have experience with this process. For one, I'm not sure I'll qualify anyway because I'm now outside of 1yr and my state is only 1yr on lemon laws. But second, my first thought is the thousands I've spent on stuff like clear bra, tint, lights, etc. Sure some things like my skid plates I can remove and put on a new one, but there so much more. Luckily I've kept all of my OE stuff like intercooler, intake, etc. Appreciate any insight here folks. I really can't believe they would rather do a buy back then just replace the bloody turbos.

 

[Zig10]

oh my, so this gets funnier and funnier. So I heard back today, from one of the customer service reps, of course not the supervisor that I last talked to, but now it seems they aren't even sure what they told me. This guy asked me if I really wanted to proceed with buy back. I explained no, not without a heck of a lot more of a conversation. Specifically, I said the supervisor told me the good faith review was to determine if they can replace the damn turbos. That's all. $2500 in warranty work, but he's saying that means they were initiating the buy back review process.

So my god, anyone here have experience with this process. For one, I'm not sure I'll qualify anyway because I'm now outside of 1yr and my state is only 1yr on lemon laws. But second, my first thought is the thousands I've spent on stuff like clear bra, tint, lights, etc. Sure some things like my skid plates I can remove and put on a new one, but there so much more. Luckily I've kept all of my OE stuff like intercooler, intake, etc. Appreciate any insight here folks. I really can't believe they would rather do a buy back then just replace the bloody turbos.

I did a buyback with GM on my '15 Yukon and my dealer made it about as painless as possible. The second one I got (2016 model) was a near exact replacement, and it took about an hour to do all of the paperwork. The only thing that really sucked was getting it re-registered in the state because here you can register for 5 years if you pay extra money (which I always do). Admittedly, I didn't do anything in the way of mods so there wasn't much in the way of sunk costs. Absent that, if Ford is too stupid to replace the turbos instead of taking the hit to buy back the car, I say let them. Talk about tripping over a dollar to pick up a dime... Stupidity at it's finest.

 

[5280tunage]

Fun week at the dealership... Actually, the dealership was awesome, but Ford couldn't blow harder. So still no word on the turbo's. Had to call in the supervisor again as they kept giving me so many different stories. He did call the dealership, and they explained that they've heard turbos rattle per the TSB daily. But that mine were substantially louder. Still no word from Ford. Mine was in the shop for 4 days to get the following done:

- Replace passenger side taillight due to internal crack
- Replace front camera spray assembly
- Do the alignment for the steering wheel
- And replace the dash since it was warping like many F150's have had. This one is extra annoying, my vehicle is garaged every night and with Covid, it has hardly been outside. How the plastic was warped in 1yr with that kind of use is beyond me. But this was a huge issue, for one, it's a huge repair. It's all one piece, the have to remove the entire dash and all AC systems. It took almost 5 weeks to get the dash parts, and the best part, got a call from the service manager saying the one they shipped out had scratches all over it. Seriously? It's stupid expensive, and the poor tech had already removed the old. So he had to put it all back together since we'll be waiting at least 4-5wks again!

What a JOKE! They did decide not to even charge me for the alignment. So that was nice, and it did fix the raptor wheel being a little off to the right.

 

[5280tunage]

Oh boy, where do I start?

So looks as though writing letters to Ford customer service, and to the board of directors has net Ford actually approving the turbo replacements. So one would say that's a good thing, but let me tell you, four days into the service and I found out today just how bad things are.

As is always the case, my local dealer I've been going to that had great reviews (which is why I picked them, as there are two dealers closer to me that have shit reviews), was purchased about 6 months ago, and they lost virtually every service advisor they had, so the folks that knew me and my situation are of course all gone. Which would explain why none of the voicemails I've left have been returned. But regardless, finally talked to the dealer GM today, and the first thing he said when I answered was, wow, you are getting a ridiculous amount of work done, which set me aside. I thought I was just there for the dash and the turbos... not so.

They are calling a complete tear down. Not sure exactly what that means and he only went through about a 3rd of the work. So here's what I was told.
- Two turbos
- New dash (second one as the first order was damaged)
- Oil pickup, oil cooler, some sensors for the oil transit system
- Sunroof repair
- The RO is now sitting at 5 pages long already

I asked if it was a body removal at this point, they said no, but that they basically had to remove most of the top and front of the engine, all kinds of stuff underneath, ridiculous amounts of seals/gaskets, etc.

Worst part is that I was originally told it was a week of work, after almost a week, I was just told today it's likely another 1.5 to 2 weeks. I love this, I bought a pretty damn expensive vehicle, that's been in the shop now 8 times in about 15 months, for a total of about 5.5-6 weeks of downtime. Seems about right I guess. At this point I miss it, I'm in a 2021 F150 STX. That thing (even though it has the ecoboost), it's week as all get out. And I'll tell you, that new interior is pretty janky and I've seen body alignment issues on it, etc. Oh, and when I drove it off the lot, it had 8 miles on it.

So a thought came up today, should I tell them I'll pay for other things while they have it all apart? Like a water pump, timing chain, etc? it's only got 15k miles on it.

 

[Soliyou]

I don’t think you should replace any other things. These parts are virtually new.

 

[5280tunage]

ALRIGHT! Back to report. Just got the rig back, after just over four weeks in the shop over the last 6 months just for this issue. They replaced both turbos (only after escalating over and over and over again with ford customer care). Ran into several issues and ended up replacing several other things including two oil cooler assemblies, tons of hoses, and exhaust manifold gasket, and several other things. Also did the dash swap (2nd time) since the original dash was warping (first replacement was damaged). Worked on the sunroof popping thing, and did some software updates.

All said and done, I saw the full RO, it was roughly 9 pages long and total service was just over $7K. Pretty insane. As for the car, I'm happy to say that so far I haven't heard any rattle. Not at startup, not under slow acceleration, at all so that's great. It actually feels a tad peppier than it did before, but maybe that's because I've been driving a '21 F150 STX for 3 weeks.

This whole experience has been so crappy, I'm just glad it's over and hopefully I don't have to take it in for anything else in a very long time. It makes it even worse, that all of the research I did to find a well rated dealership for service was acquired last year, and is normal when that happens, all shit breaks loose. Lost virtually every employee in service... So sick of that happening to every family owned dealership left. Sell out to the big names and customers are the first to lose.

One interesting thing the service manager told me, was we were lucky so much of this was escalated. He's had another expedition sitting in the shop for 11 weeks because they can't get a new BCM. Since the dealer does Dodge/Chevy/Ford, they told me that Chrysler is essentially on exchange only terms right now. Never heard of that, but it means that Chrysler may not replace parts on vehicles until they get the defective parts, he said they have things like ECU's, trannies, etc taking 6-8 weeks. Thanks COVID.

 

[Alwaysthinkin]

Damn, I'm don't know whether I wish I had joined this forum before my purchase or glad I didn't! Personally, I thought I was buying a "proven" design and mechanics with the Expedition. Now I'm beginning to think I need to start a notebook on problems to look for. I can say thanks for sharing your experiences and my hope is you are done being put through the wringer.

 

[DWs-TTEB]

ALRIGHT! Back to report. Just got the rig back, after just over four weeks in the shop over the last 6 months just for this issue. They replaced both turbos (only after escalating over and over and over again with ford customer care). Ran into several issues and ended up replacing several other things including two oil cooler assemblies, tons of hoses, and exhaust manifold gasket, and several other things. Also did the dash swap (2nd time) since the original dash was warping (first replacement was damaged). Worked on the sunroof popping thing, and did some software updates.

All said and done, I saw the full RO, it was roughly 9 pages long and total service was just over $7K. Pretty insane. As for the car, I'm happy to say that so far I haven't heard any rattle. Not at startup, not under slow acceleration, at all so that's great. It actually feels a tad peppier than it did before, but maybe that's because I've been driving a '21 F150 STX for 3 weeks.

This whole experience has been so crappy, I'm just glad it's over and hopefully I don't have to take it in for anything else in a very long time. It makes it even worse, that all of the research I did to find a well rated dealership for service was acquired last year, and is normal when that happens, all shit breaks loose. Lost virtually every employee in service... So sick of that happening to every family owned dealership left. Sell out to the big names and customers are the first to lose.

One interesting thing the service manager told me, was we were lucky so much of this was escalated. He's had another expedition sitting in the shop for 11 weeks because they can't get a new BCM. Since the dealer does Dodge/Chevy/Ford, they told me that Chrysler is essentially on exchange only terms right now. Never heard of that, but it means that Chrysler may not replace parts on vehicles until they get the defective parts, he said they have things like ECU's, trannies, etc taking 6-8 weeks. Thanks COVID.

Glad Ford FINALLY fix your turbos! 6 months of playing the back & forth, you deserve a medal/plaque/award from Ford for the "Most patient/enduring customer of the year"!

 

[5280tunage]

Glad Ford FINALLY fix your turbos! 6 months of playing the back & forth, you deserve a medal/plaque/award from Ford for the "Most patient/enduring customer of the year"!

Ha Ha, pretty sure that's not what they would call me. But I am persistent. I was raised to be proud of the things I work for, and damnit, I want it to be right when it costs this much. I would never buy a Honda Civic and expect it to be perfect, sadly they might be more so than this has been so far.

But thanks folks. It has been terrible. I will report back in a couple months and let folks know how they sound or if I have any more issues.