2000 Expedition Engine swap ideas wanted

[One Mean Green]

I am contemplating doing an engine swap in my 2000 Expedition when the factory engine needs to be replaced.
I have the 5.4 Eddie Bauer Edition that is AWD.
I know that there has been discussion about diesel swaps, lightning swaps and swaps of late model engines but I want to swap an older generation pre-computerised/pre-fuel injected engine such as a 390 that I presently have in my garage. Why do I want to do such a swap? Besides the fact I already have a 390 I am not a fan of the aluminum cylinder heads sparkplug thread issues. I am not a fan of electronics running anything due to their inherent failures and expense of troubleshooting. I am old school and like carburetters, and pre smog engines. I live in a state that does not inspect vehicles so emissions testing is not an issue.

So my questions are as follows.

Can I use the stock automatic transmission with the 390 or would an adapter plate be needed?
Does the stock transmission work off vacuum or computer?
If the stock transmission would not work what automatic transmission would work with the 390 and mate to the transfer case? or would also need a transfer case and new drive shafts?
Any other thoughts besides I am crazy?
My Expedition runs well but has 160 k miles and I know eventually it will need replaced or rebuilt and I just am not a big fan of the Triton engine and want to weigh my options before I am forced to make a hasty decision. Thanks for your help and sugestions.

 

[deano]

haha 160k is nothing. our work trucks with the 5.4 have well over 350,000. so you might be waiting a while. your swap sounds fun though.

 

[tonydiv]

You'll need one of those stand alone controllers for the automatic transmission. There may also be some other things that are computer controlled that may stop working since you're no longer going to be using an ecu.

 

[One Mean Green]

Something I had not heard about Cummins 4bt swap

I know I started the thread with the thought of a old school 390 but I had not done any research on You-Tube.
How about a Cummins 4bt swap? I found a video of a F150 with a 6bt swap but I think the 4bt that I found swapped into several other Ford Trucks would be a better choice, my truck has the towing package and 3.55 gears.
So, with that being said, what do you guys think?
I am thinking automatic transmission.

 

[One Mean Green]

Well, I have been doing research on other sites and a 2003 Expedition has been done using a Cummins 4bt with a manual transmission and his biggest fabrication issue was notching the oilpan to clearance his fron axle (4wd). I have found that there were several equipment manufacturers who had different profile oilpans, If I do a 3 inch body lift I may not have to touch the oilpan or can use one of the other pans and different oil pickups. So, using the 4R100 and a stand alone controller and adapter to mate the engine up to my transmission I think actually a diesel is the way to go and the Cummins 4bt is very durable and long lived. Plus it can be increased in hp very easily. and easily can get 25 mpg and at least 80 mph which is plenty enough to rack up tickets. Yes, I know I am >>>>>

 

[BakerEdition]

Last time I checked diesel fuel was a bit more than gasoline....I like old school...I had a 1972 F250 390,manual trans and built a 6.9 diesel with a banks turbo, inter-cooler and bank exhaust...mated that with a 6 speed Alison automatic...wanna talk about a head turner and a stump ripper....But I tend to agree....drive it till it dies...at your mileage your just got it broke in....my 5 cents worth

 

[One Mean Green]

I had a 390 I rebuilt in a 1968 Ford F100 with a 3 speed column shift (They suck) Was a great engine but the truck was lucky to get 14 mpg.

I know Diesel is higher than gas but if I can go from my current 13mpg to around 25 mpg the cost of the fuel would be worth it and if I wanted to use WVO in it my cost may even be less than that.

The 390 is a great engine and I was going to use one I own in the Expedition.I want to get rid of the computerized engine management system and the Cummins 4bt is a mechanically fuel injected engine and if I could find a automatic transmission that I could run with an overdrive gear (4th) that was not computer controlled I would use one if I could figure a way to keep the AWD and mate it with the Cummins. That would save me buying a stand alone computer for the transmission. I hate computers because if they fail it is never cheap to replace or repair. My state does not check for emmisions and has no vehicle inspection requirements in my area presently.

I have to stay with an automatic transmission due to my bad knees or I would do a 5 speed conversion.

I believe I can keep the cost in the $5-$6000 range with a good used engine and some research.

 

[toms89]

You can find new ford racing (8 thread) PI heads complete with mustang cams and valvetrain for less than $1,000 a pair. Of course installing a carb on a 5.4 while not impossible it is practically so.

I can understand your desire to install a 390 since you have one but this would require a lot of customizing and fabrication. It would not be an easy swap. Motor mounts, headers, tranny, driveshaft, fuel pump.. damn well almost everthing would need to be modified to work. The ECU can fail but I believe this to be very rare. Complicated and more difficult to trouble shoot this I agree on. But are you willing to spend the time and money to avoid this potential trouble?? IMO it is much more trouble than its worth... but thats just me.

If you have the time, $$ and desire im certain it can be done.

 

[One Mean Green]

Hey, Tom, Thanks for your insight, yes, I did consider the fabrication required to install either the 390 I have or a Cummins 4bt, I also was already aware of the other cylinder heads and while I could install those heads it still does not negate my dislike for aluminum cylinder heads and electronic engine and fuel control. I guess I should mention that I am wanting to use my Expedition for a bug out vehicle and I am wanting a vehicle that could be repaired almost anywhere without the need for advanced computer technology and parts that could be effected by an EMP blast from a coronal mass ejection from the sun or a nuclear blast in the atmosphere. That is why I mentioned wanting an automatic OD transmission that is not reliant on a computer for controll. Am I a nut? No, just a realist about the current U.S. Financial situation and the solar flare activity of the sun now and in the recent past. Even if I did keep the Triton engine and eventually rebuilt it and replaced the cylinder heads by the time it was all said and done I would have well over $3000 in a new rebuild and my fuel economy would still be almost half of what a Diesel could provide.

 

[BakerEdition]

Green, you live in Tennessee which in October so will I...LOL...would it not be better to look around in one of those farmers fields or craigs list and find something older to do this mod to? might save alot of money where if the expo is not giving you trouble, why shoot it? I have to agree with Tom...BUT...its your truck and money...thats the joys of this forum...we offer advise, what you do with it is up to you...sounds like you got your mind pretty well made up..

 

[One Mean Green]

Hey Baker, Im a transplant here in TN, I live in the middle of nowhere between
Nashville and Knoxville. I did consider using another vehicle but I like most of you guys love my Expedition and for me being also a dog owner of 3 dogs who like to ride it is a perfect vehicle.

 

[BakerEdition]

Hey Meanie...LOL...I know how you feel about Tennessee...out in the middle of no where...30 minute ride to get anywhere....coming from Michigan...Im looking forward to that...LOL...I will be in Lebanon about 30 minutes from Nashville...Once we get settled in, maybe we can hook up...got 2 dogs myself...and they are real beasts...Junkyard type...LMAO...Understand the love for the truck..its my first Expo and actually this and my Impala SS are the first used cars I have ever bought, always leased and you couldn't do much to them...There is much to consider to eliminate the computer..Trans, ABS, air bags, most of the vehicles electrical system, speedo, windows, locks...heres a thought...ever think about finding a old pick up with 4x4 that was an automatic and pulling your body of its frame and adapting the body and dropping it on the older frame and then mate your 390 up to a C6 or even a Allison...then all you would have is the BCM (body control module) that runs some of your creature comforts..then you would have both old school and new school the way you want....it might be easier just rolling complete old school chassis under your truck....ok my 10 cents worth....

Oh yeah...the fawn pugs name is "Frank" and the real vicious looking one is "Sammie"

 

[One Mean Green]

Hey Baker, Yes, I did consider doing a frame swap but or using an older Bronco but anything one does will have pluses and minuses to it, Nice Dogs. I have an 11 year old male Jack Russell Terrorist (Terrier) and 2 mixed breed Beagle/? that someone was nice enough to dump off out here in the country. I wasn't planning on having 3 dogs but my plans changed when they found me. I cannot stand to see an animal starve and they turned out to be very sweet girls who are very affectionate.


Well, I do have some time to contemplate my swap but a Diesel Expy would be a nice ride.

 

[One Mean Green]

Hey Guys, I have been doing some more contemplation about my engine swap.

Your thoughts about a different plan I am contemplating.

How about if I forget the engine swap into my Expedition alltogether.

Now, I am contemplating buying a later generation Ford Bronco 4 X 4 model with a bad engine and doing Cummins 4bt swap. I have seen several Broncos for sale with bad engines lately. I am not sure how much computer control the different years of Broncos had but if I can get one at the right price with a rust free body I may be able to avoid having to deal with the computerized transmission and engine. Tom and Baker or anyone else~~~Any thoughts besides I am a nut?

 

[2000eb]

4bt's are amazing if you wanna see full possible potential look into sbc south bend clutches mudrail it is powered by a 4bt. ok from another more conservative point since i saw baker mention fuel. diesels get better mpg chap look into tthem haha. no but really to give you an idea i have an article around here it was either diesel power or diesel world where a guy did a 4bt swap in a newer like 2007 ish chevy silverado 2dr 2wd short bed and averages 35mpg. the 4bt is famous for being extremely fuel effecient i would bet you would be looking at 25+mpg. i have been debating on a 4bt for either my bronco or my expy. i think bronco would be an easier first attempt. o ya and there is an article about a guy that swapped a smaller diesel into a lifted 86 ford ranger 4wd that his worst tank has been like 30mpg. you would be shocked to see the amazing fuel milage diesels are capable of. o ya and when you see a diesel blowing lots of black smoke around town its just someone that is running a hot tune etc but couldnt afford the bigger turbo so he is just blowing unburnt fuel.