2003 5.4 Expedition timing chain "slap" sound...but isnt timing chain...

[johnboneske]

I have an unusual one... My 5.4 Expedition is 4x4, EB, and just over 201k on the odometer...

While driving is the ONLY time it makes the noise, and not constantly. The sound happens at any speed, when the engine is in the 1500 to 2000 RPM range under light/moderate load, after my foot has been off the gas pedal for a few seconds. If I push the gas pedal to half l throttle or more it goes away, usually after a "pop/clunking" sound, and it immediately disappears. Also, it only happens after the engine warms up! It doesn't do it when it is cold.

I always use Mobile 1 5W20, and a Fram Extra Guard filter, this last oil change(less than 500 miles ago), I used a Motorcraft filter since I hear all these horror story's but have never actually seen one, and was thinking I am gonna be the one...LOL. After changing the oil it has no change to the sound.

At idle after warmed up, I can never get it to make the sound while sitting still. Only happens when driving it. I can drive around the block and it does it, stop, and apply full brakes and throttle up in drive and nothing. It doesnt do it, take my foot off the brake, and drive it, get to the 1500RPM range and its back.

I used a Stethoscope on the pully's. Thought it was a sloppy idler pully, and changed it. No help. The AC, water pump, PS pump, and crank pully's arent loose/no wobble to them.

Possible ideas: Transfer case? Trans? I dont think it is the torque converter, since it spins when idling, even while stopped. Any other trans issues? Output shaft? I checked the yoke and it isnt loose.

Possible Oil pump? How bad is it to change?

Any help would be appreciated. Anyone in the Columbus Ohio area I can show it to?

 

[1955moose]

Well if your suspecting oil pump, hook up an oil pressure gauge, observe it. It's possible your problem is a worn chain or guide, causing slap under load. The better fram filters have the silicone seal, and would cause noise more on cold start-up. Most transmission torque converters cause a rumble, or dirty up the fluid. Slipping is another trait of a failing convertor. And the fact that your Suv is a 2 valve eliminates cam phasers or most 3valve oiling issues. Hate to say it, but if your oil pressure is ok, you might have to pull timing cover for exploratory surgery. Anybody else want to step up to the plate!

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[johnboneske]

How bad of job is the timing chain/guides/tensioners? It sounds just like a timing chain rattle... but only does it under load (used to have a 99 explorer that has the timing chain problem, so I know the "sound")

I looked at Rock auto for parts. Anyone else do the job? What shall I replace that isn't typical, I assume the chains, tensioners and guides. What else since it is that far apart? Thank you!

 

[johnboneske]

Of course...but please don't laugh. Do the chains typically wear out/stretch? If HATE to tear it apart and do the job and spin the chain or gear one tooth and F the motor up... who has done it before on here?

 

[stamp11127]

How "bad" of a job will depend on your tools and skills. When I did it on my 4.6 I opted for two cam holders instead of getting by with one. The biggest pain was the valve cover gaskets. They tended to droop down on the edges and catch the caps as it was being put in place. Permatex #2 to the rescue.

Yes all the components wear. If any of the guides are missing they will be in the oil pan and must be removed. If not plan on a rebuild from clogging up the pick up.

 

[johnboneske]

I have a fairly decent tool set. All domestic and metric shallow and deep sockets, screw drivers, pliers, combo wrenches both domestic and metric. Etc...

What specialty tools do I need? Harmonic balancer puller? Anything unusual?

I also see on the parts list on Rock auto, I need tensioners, and guides, but looks as though there are two guides per side(one top and one bottom), I assume everything is bolted in too, and not terrible to get off? Read to hold the timing chain tight together with zip ties? Pull the radiator or leave it in to so it? Any help is appriciated!

 

[1955moose]

Always pull your radiator, you don't need to add it to your Laundry list! This is a very detailed and fairly time consuming repair, but keep in mind depending how much you make per hour at your job will dictate whether to do it or pay someone! We're all about fix it yourself here. if you have the talent. Count on at least 6hours to r&r and timing parts, and possibly more to pull oil pan to clean out debris, and replace with new oil pump, and gasket. Timing procedure for camshafts are all on Cd repair disc, available through eBay, or equivalent. Would not start job without cd. or paper dealer manual. Don't buy Haynes or Chilton ones good for lighting BBQ! Our members can assist you with small items along the repair. Keep us posted, don't be a ghost, like some members.

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[johnboneske]

I have both the Chilton and Hayes from my other expedition, and your right it is useless!

How bad to pull the pan in my truck? I have a 4WD if it matters? I have thought about the timing components, and oil pump. Anything else? Should I do the water pump since it is that far apart?

Was looking at car-part.com may just get a lower mileage engine and change it... hell, thought about putting in some 30W and try and quiet it and sell it. Get $3k roughly for it, spend an additional $3k and get a 2006 or so with fewer miles on it...

I love my Expedition, my last one was a 97 and didn't have to do anything to it for over the 6 years I had it. This one has been a "lemon". I have done A LOT to it! It may be time to get a different one...

 

[1955moose]

Putting a $2.00 for sale sign on it is the easy way, but do you feel good passing on your problems? I don't think a heavy oil is going to mask your noise, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Usually late first editions are the pick of the litter. Could be yours was abused before you bought it. Seems on this forum either are members have great luck, or have every issue under the sun. Well hope you keep and fix it, but can totally understand moving on. I've owned over 40 cars/ motorcycles in my life. The next one is your new baby!

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[johnboneske]

I agree that passing the buck to someone else isnt the proper way...

How long to remove the valve covers and check out the timing chains? I want to check the slack in them.

It ONLY slaps/makes noise when the engine is fully warmed up, it has to run for over 6 or 7 minutes under load and not just idling to make the noise, which I assume is when the oil is fully heated and at its thinest. Are the tensioners hydraulic? In my Exploder they where hydraulically operated to cause tension on the timing chains. Is that the same on this? Just hate to go through all the work and not fix it...

I have stuck LOTS of time and money in this thing in the last few years( did all the work myself besides trans and cats): Right after I got it, had the trans rebuilt, alternator, 2 of the 3 idler pullies, 3 of the 4 wheel hubs, MAF, 02 sensor, drivers side Cats, both front calipers and hoses, new rotors front and rear and ceramic pads, Rear wiper motor, rear glass hinges, reprogram the heated/cooled seats, and power steering lines, fix sunroof, plus things I have forgot about. So, alot of crap... sick of it on this one!

 

[1955moose]

As to your question yes, your timing chain tensioners are oil pressurized. They do fail. That's why you never reuse them. That along with the plastic chain guides falling apart, and all the debris landing in the pan, and clogs up the oil pickup screen. In actuality the timing chains, guides, and tensioners should be changed out by 130, 000 miles. Timing belts had to be changed every 60k, nowadays that's 90k. But nobody is going to put out that kind of expense. Timing belts snap if you push them too far, chains just jingle and clank! Oh yea you might want to move your post over to expeditions forum second gen. The other forums like engines don't post on my email, or timeline. That's why it took a long time getting back. More members read those part of forum first.

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[SEPTIC PROFESSOR]

5w20 was specified by Ford only to supposedly increase fuel economy as their EPA estimates were
overstated. My 03 XLT 5.4 has had Mobil 1 10w30 along with the Mobil 1 oil filters every 4K miles since the first oil change (always personally done) and now have over 250K on vehicle and engine runs dead
perfect with zero noise. Others I know who used 5w20 saw the early demise of engine timing components
and diminishing compression from excessive ring wear. Ford loves the intended side effect of the worthless thin oil in terms of premature engine failure leading to more vehicle replacement sales in the shorter term.

 

[Boose]

I did the full timing compliment on an 05 3V motor never on the 2V. As they are both SOHC design, I'd think it's about the same effort. 3 day weekend job... Friday was disassemble, Saturday was reassemble the motor, Sunday was accessories and hitting the key. If you are going to do it, do it all. Chains, tensioners, guides. I'd assume that the cam and crank sprockets come with the chain. I did th eoil pump on mine as part of the 3V problem is a loss of oil pressure at higher RPM's due to the back plate flexing. It's a bit of a pain, but the pump will come off without dropping the pan. Also plan on water pump, belts, etc. It's a big job but gratifying.

 

[1955moose]

What brand parts did you use? And how are they holding up?

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[Boose]

I used a hodgepodge assortment of aftermarket. The oil pump was Mellings. I put about 45,000 miles on it aftet the job before I traded it in on our 17. Never made a tick again other then the expected injector noise. When I fired it up for the first time and heard silence... that was one of my most gratifying mechanical achievements lol.