2005 XLT SSP: New camshaft, stalls after a while.

[Henry4dAce]

Hi Gang,


overseas 2nd Gen aficionado, looking for your possible most kind input & advice.


My 2005 XLT SSP Triton 5,4 L 300 hp was runnin' just a li'l rough when I purchased it from a private party. Oil level was always fine and so was oil pressure. Compression test showed all eight cylinders OK.

After about one month one morning a slight noise could be heard from the engine. I immediately turned the engine off and had my Expy towed by tow truck to the 30 years same owner very experienced garage having all years done various work on my various domestic vehicles also since already 30 years back.

Personal car buff background info: At the moment I'm the proud owner of four (4) US domestics, years 1986 to 2005, from all The Big Three sistas. I'm actually raised in a Ford family, grown up and learned to drive in late '60s Custom 500's, awa in compact Falcon sedans & ditto '70s Mavericks.

Back to my 2nd gen Expy headache story: Shop said camshaft was crooked (pun intended) that is camshaft was bent. I had the shop do the work needed, since this was above & beyond my own DIY level.

Engine was lifted out by shop. New camshaft, awa professionally new parts all 'round was installed.

Afterwards, engine started up fine, w/ no bad noise. Initial idling seems fine However, then stalls after a while.

No codes, no clues. Shop Manager is out of ideas, owner of shop tells me I have to resolve this issue w/ the Garage Manager. Owner himself does'nt give a damned, about how to get engine stay running correctly.


My own theory is they didn't manage get the camshaft in place, properly.

Oil pressure varies because of that and the hydraulic gear wheel does not turn camshaft over, because of lack of oil pressure. Camshaft sticks and engine stalls.

Or am I possibly off the track, 'ere..?

Shop won't do the work all over gain they tell me. Still they expect me to pay the bill for the obviously faulty work done. I fear the new camshaft is now junk, too.

Any input greatly appreciated. Thanks, guys.

 

[stamp11127]

Welcome to the site.

Crooked camshaft? Seems more like a "crooked" shop.
Did they install a new timing set also?

Ask to see your old camshaft and where it is bent.

 

[1955moose]

Well your in a sticky one aren't you! Obviously the 30 year shop isn't as good, or as reputable as you thought. Paying a shop for a job that they didn't fix correctly, or your case made worse, is not only illegal, it's imoral. Get ahold of consumer affairs, and possibly your family attorney and see what he/she says. I hate when these things happen. Make sure you keep all receipts, document all conversations, time, who you talked to etc. I was a service advisor/manager for years and thank God I had quality mechanics working for me. Your probably going to have to pay to get your SUV out of there, but unfortunately your going to have a battle on your hands. Trying to diagnose this one is going to be a toughie without being there. By the way the engine doesn't need to be plucked out to change a camshaft!

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[Henry4dAce]

Thank you for your input, stamp11127 and 1955moose.


To my knowledge, no new timing set was installed when new cam was put in.

Would you say the lack of a new timing set could possibly be part of the actual stalling prob, that has emerged after the cam change, or would you say that it was sorta typical inattention by a sloppy shop, not to include the timing set when already doing this kind of engine work?

By the way the engine doesn't need to be plucked out to change a camshaft!

Engine NOT needed to be plucked out, to change the camshaft, was interesting info, indeed. Would you kindly like to confirm that?


My own theory is still they didn't manage get the camshaft in place, properly.

To quote my own original post:

Oil pressure varies because of that and the hydraulic gear wheel does not turn camshaft over, because of lack of oil pressure. Camshaft sticks and engine stalls.

However, still unsure if I'm on the rite track here. Any opinions welcome.


Also any more general ideas on this stalling problem after cam was changed would be great.


Thanks a lot, guys.

 

[1955moose]

The stalling problem on 3 valve motors is usually due to a failing camshaft advance phaser, that's in the retard position. It throws a 0012 trouble code. As far as oil pressure, 05-07 models and some newer years had failing oil pumps. And as far as doing timing gears/ chains/ phasers, and camshaft, you don't need to pull motor, hell you dont even have to pull the cylinder head. Your guys are gouging you on labor, and really aren't very versed on repairing this type of motor. Like Stamp said, camshafts don't bend as a rule. The lobes that open the valves wear, the phaser mounted on the end go bad, very common, but in close to 50 years of wrenching, I don't think I've ever seen one bent or wobbly.

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[Henry4dAce]

The stalling problem on 3 valve motors is usually due to a failing camshaft advance phaser, that's in the retard position. It throws a 0012 trouble code. As far as oil pressure, 05-07 models and some newer years had failing oil pumps. And as far as doing timing gears/ chains/ phasers, and camshaft, you don't need to pull motor, hell you dont even have to pull the cylinder head. Your guys are gouging you on labor, and really aren't very versed on repairing this type of motor. Like Stamp said, camshafts don't bend as a rule. The lobes that open the valves wear, the phaser mounted on the end go bad, very common, but in close to 50 years of wrenching, I don't think I've ever seen one bent or wobbly.

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Thanks heaps for your follow-up input, 1955moose.

What you wrote in your latest post makes sense to me. Shop sez no codes and when I wanted to double-check that w/ my own trusty ol' Innova 3120 CanOBD2 tool, they wouldn't even let me plug it in...

Bet, there might very well be one florid (pun intended) 0012 'round, but unfortunately can't confirm it.

Not even need pull the cylinder head..? Gee, Stamp might be spot-on, when sez "crooked" shop, ratha than crooked camshaft.

Thanks again, Moose.

 

[1955moose]

No prob buddy, let us know how it turns out. Stamp and I have torn into a motor or 2. He's a Gas/ Diesel teacher, he knows his stuff, as do I.

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[stamp11127]

The easiest way to verify the cam is installed (timed) correctly is with an oscilloscope. I'll post a link for a YT video from South Main Auto on how these are tested after work tonight. It will compare the timing of each bank to the crankshaft.

 

[Henry4dAce]

The easiest way to verify the cam is installed (timed) correctly is with an oscilloscope. I'll post a link for a YT video from South Main Auto on how these are tested after work tonight. It will compare the timing of each bank to the crankshaft.

Stamp, thanks heaps, for the info & add'nal vid link, on the oscilloscope method.

Been outa town couple o' days so got to read your most kind input posted Monday 1st, no sooner than today.

This method seems great, since being able verify correct installation of the new cam is critical, when I'm to continue get my rig running correctly.

Thanks again, Stamp.

 

[Henry4dAce]

Hello Gang, 'ere's an update from Ol' Henry, on my after a camshift exchange (had developed an engine mis-sound prior to that) possibly shop-ruined 2nd Gen.

For any new followers pls see the backlog of this thread.

Update:

I had the rig towed to my own garage, since shop wouldn't deal w/ it any more.

As you already know, if follow my rant here, shop (unnecessarily) dropped both the engine awa the 4R75E, to make for the new camshaft.

Seems they then, after the re-installation, managed to run the engine w/out filling up the AT first hand.

Now after filling up the 4R75E correctly, neither does Drive or Reverse or any gear engage.

Would it be an idea to change the AT filter? Would that possibly help? What else, would you suggest to try out do w/ the non-engaging AT ?

Q: ...if my AT would be toast and a swap would be necessary:

Is the 4R75E the same, in 2-wd (such as mine) awa in 4-wd 2nd gen, year 2005?

Of course, 4-wd does have the additional transfer case (which is of no interest to me) but would a 4R75E from a 4-wd Exped fit?

Look fwd your possible fast response on the Q above, since I was offered a used running condition 4R75E from a 3rd party.

Thanks a lot in advance for your possible input. Your response is much appreciated!