2018 Expedition HD Tow pkg potential upgrades

[Mike Wolfe]

BTW guys
5.0L Coyote with flex fuel option produces approx 15-20% more hp & torque on E85 verses premium gasoline
5.3L GM Flex fuel engines produce approx 15-20% more hp & torque on E85 verses premium gasoline
Both of those vehicles have the same fuel systems
Only difference is PCM programming
Many owners of flex fuel vehicles use it year around in the midwest
Bet you can't find any of them who have experienced a problem with ethanol
Have been running ethanol in my vehicles for over 20 years & have never experienced the problems many suggest will occur (including those in the article you posted)
Now I will agree if you go back to the early 90's their claims of problems with the fuel systems on vehicles of that ERA were founded
However since the mandated 10% ethanol fuel blends vehicles have been designed to accept ethanol blends with no issues
BTW the article you referenced was produced 8 years ago
Challenge you to find anything negative regarding ethanol in a recent publication
Here is a more recent publication with some factual information
https://itstillruns.com/ethanol-called-renewable-resource-6297435.html

Renewable Chemistry


The production of ethanol from plant material and ethanol's subsequent combustion form a complete cycle. Glucose within plants is synthesized from carbon dioxide and water by photosynthesis, a process that uses solar energy. Yeast fermentation generates ethanol from glucose. When ethanol is used as an energy source and combusted, it produces carbon dioxide and water. Plants convert the carbon dioxide and water back to glucose, completing the cycle.




Energy Use in Ethanol Production


Although ethanol is a renewable source of energy, energy is needed to collect and transport plant material to the production facility. More energy is consumed in the fermentation process. Ethanol production has a positive energy balance, however, because the solar energy, captured during photosynthesis by plants and stored as glucose, produces more energy upon combustion of ethanol than was used in the production of ethanol. For example, one unit of energy, used in the production of ethanol from corn, produces 2.3 units of usable energy from ethanol, according to U.S. Department of Agriculture research.


Cute add

 

[Mike Wolfe]

Also this current study done by the department of energy
It was completed this year

 

[JohnT]

For power versus mpg any alcohol type fuel wins the power argument, thats why it's used in dragsters and that silly motor racing game where the drivers drive around in an oval until they get dizzy and puke and the winner is the guy who upchucks last.

For MPG it's not as good hence many people looking to find ethanol free fuel.

It's been a while since anyone had issues with ethanol damaging their cars and up here in the great white north having a fuel that absorbs moisture as it goes isn't a bad thing in minus 40 C

But it's flash point of 16 C would make running a pure ethanol engine in -40 pretty interesting

 

[5150 pops]

BTW guys
5.0L Coyote with flex fuel option produces approx 15-20% more hp & torque on E85 verses premium gasoline
5.3L GM Flex fuel engines produce approx 15-20% more hp & torque on E85 verses premium gasoline
Both of those vehicles have the same fuel systems
Only difference is PCM programming
Many owners of flex fuel vehicles use it year around in the midwest
Bet you can't find any of them who have experienced a problem with ethanol
Have been running ethanol in my vehicles for over 20 years & have never experienced the problems many suggest will occur (including those in the article you posted)
Now I will agree if you go back to the early 90's their claims of problems with the fuel systems on vehicles of that ERA were founded
However since the mandated 10% ethanol fuel blends vehicles have been designed to accept ethanol blends with no issues
BTW the article you referenced was produced 8 years ago
Challenge you to find anything negative regarding ethanol in a recent publication
Here is a more recent publication with some factual information

I get where you are coming from, but I have not been able to substantiate whether it is practical/acceptable to pour E85 in a vehicle that clearly indicates E0-E10 ONLY. I have to believe there is a difference somewhere not just in the PCM/ECU but also somewhere in the actual fuel system, whether it's pump, injectors, lines, sending unit, etc. Which logically it would seem the automaker would in fact simply equip their entire production run with the necessary hard parts regardless of it being flashed to run on flex fuel, because buying only components that work for all fuel variants would be cheaper overall from economies of scale, rather than buying two different lines of parts, across all their different models.

So regardless of age of cited articles, I'm still hung up, assuming nothing bad will happen because it hasn't for those who've tried it isn't that fantastic for me. I'd like to think I'm going to keep this thing 6-10 years, and not have to replace lines, tank, pumps, injectors, because I thought it was safe to run E85 in a vehicle that clearly is not a ffv.

How the hell do we continue to allow b.s. policies to be instituted in this country, is beyond my comprehension. We have truth in advertising statutes, but apparently this doesn't apply to E85 in the USA...
In the United States, the exact ratio of fuel ethanol to hydrocarbon may vary according to ASTM 5798 that specifies the allowable ethanol content in E85 as ranging from 51% to 83%.
Here is another link that goes into further infuriating detail...warning it is from 2007, BUT the standard is still in use today.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjtnduvt-PeAhUhnuAKHUuNDe0QzPwBegQIARAC&url=https://www.autoblog.com/2007/02/27/when-is-e85-not-85-percent-ethanol-when-its-e70-with-an-e85-st/&psig=AOvVaw3KDIkwl3FSfwiQN2WsoROx&ust=1542819157004623

 

[Mike Wolfe]

I get where you are coming from, but I have not been able to substantiate whether it is practical/acceptable to pour E85 in a vehicle that clearly indicates E0-E10 ONLY. I have to believe there is a difference somewhere not just in the PCM/ECU but also somewhere in the actual fuel system, whether it's pump, injectors, lines, sending unit, etc. Which logically it would seem the automaker would in fact simply equip their entire production run with the necessary hard parts regardless of it being flashed to run on flex fuel, because buying only components that work for all fuel variants would be cheaper overall from economies of scale, rather than buying two different lines of parts, across all their different models.

So regardless of age of cited articles, I'm still hung up, assuming nothing bad will happen because it hasn't for those who've tried it isn't that fantastic for me. I'd like to think I'm going to keep this thing 6-10 years, and not have to replace lines, tank, pumps, injectors, because I thought it was safe to run E85 in a vehicle that clearly is not a ffv.

How the hell do we continue to allow b.s. policies to be instituted in this country, is beyond my comprehension. We have truth in advertising statutes, but apparently this doesn't apply to E85 in the USA...
In the United States, the exact ratio of fuel ethanol to hydrocarbon may vary according to ASTM 5798 that specifies the allowable ethanol content in E85 as ranging from 51% to 83%.
Here is another link that goes into further infuriating detail...warning it is from 2007, BUT the standard is still in use today.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjtnduvt-PeAhUhnuAKHUuNDe0QzPwBegQIARAC&url=https://www.autoblog.com/2007/02/27/when-is-e85-not-85-percent-ethanol-when-its-e70-with-an-e85-st/&psig=AOvVaw3KDIkwl3FSfwiQN2WsoROx&ust=1542819157004623

Sure I understand your apprehension

But think of it this way

All vehicles must tolerate at least 10% ethanol mix

When engineers develop fuel system components that must tolerate ethanol you do not have a choice of choosing the characteristics for just 10% ethanol mix

You must select ethanol compatible materials regardless of the ethanol concentration (10-100%)

Think of it this way

Some of the major injector manufacturers are:

Delphi

Bosch

Denso

Siemens

Hitachi & others

When they develop an injector design there will be a lot of common elements & the only differences will be the nozzle design for flow & spray pattern, the dynamic set point adjustment & maybe the coil impedance.

That same injector (possibly with varying flow rates) will likely be used on flex fuel & non flex fuel vehicles.

Ford uses the same injector as an example for the flex fuel 5L coyote & the non flex fuel high performance Mustangs

The same is true for fuel pumps, fuel lines, fittings etc, etc.


I do not recommend you run straight E85

I do not in my vehicles

I mix E85 & 91 octane E10 in about a 60-40 mix

That equates to about a 100 octane mix

The ecoboost GDI fuel system does not have a high enough flow rate to run straight E85

Gen I ECOBOOST engines will tolerate about an E30 mix ok

Gen II ECOBOOST engines have a dual injection system & a higher output HPFP so they will tolerate mixes up to E50 with no problems


I have run ethanol in various concentrations in all my vehicles since 2004, in my lawnmowers, string trimmers, chain saws, edgers, generators etc.

I personally have never experienced any problems related to the ethanol

Small engine manufacturers must certify their engines for at least E15 concentrations

so those parts will not be damaged with 100% ethanol either

Of course those small engines do not have fuel systems calibrated with enough flow capabilities to run well with concentrations of ethanol above 15%. Therefore they may not run well but no actual damage to the fuel system parts will occur



Have a happy thanksgiving

Promise to not imbibe to much ethanol

Hope you have a blessed day with family & friends