2018 Navigator getting 6th set of Cam Phasers.

[5280tunage]

Not sure I'd blame the techs. Given that this happens at least once to so many people, I thinks it's fundamentally a design flaw. This thing could crush Ford if it ever makes it to a full recall, but honestly I'm not sure what they would do with no realistic and permanent fix. Pull a VW and buy back all of them? I can guarantee knowing what I'm seeing here, I will not be keeping mine past the extended warranty, if it makes it that far.

The shear amount of time folks are dealing with this is also nuts. And what about the part shortages now? Not to mention the almost complete loss of revenue stopping production on so many lines and holding so many vehicles in unsellable and rusting conditions? Ford will restrict repairs even more for the time being, gonna be interesting.

 

[Anerbe]

Its been at multiple dealers, Ford, Lincoln, ect. Its just Ford balking at the engine replacement idea because it costs them too much money to do that VS more phasers and hope we go away....

unfortunately, it appears there are way into this in terms of cost going down the phaser direction. who knows - maybe they don't have additional engines available to replace

 

[Deadman]

unfortunately, it appears there are way into this in terms of cost going down the phaser direction. who knows - maybe they don't have additional engines available to replace

They haven't even crossed that bridge yet to check. I'm sure they can "find" one if they really tried! lol.

 

[Mac Attack]

Due to the oil path circuit, bad chain tensioner gaskets can bleed off oil before it reaches the phasers, thereby increasing wear on the pins, etc. If those tensioner gaskets haven't been replaced, maybe they were wrong from the factory and exacerbating phaser wear.

If you're going in for new phasers, and being the 6th time, I would have those looked at too. Maybe consider new chain, tensioner, etc depending on the mileage.

Good luck!

 

[Deadman]

Due to the oil path circuit, bad chain tensioner gaskets can bleed off oil before it reaches the phasers, thereby increasing wear on the pins, etc. If those tensioner gaskets haven't been replaced, maybe they were wrong from the factory and exacerbating phaser wear.

If you're going in for new phasers, and being the 6th time, I would have those looked at too. Maybe consider new chain, tensioner, etc depending on the mileage.

Good luck!

They did tensioners and chain and everything imaginable..... Oil pressure solenoid, valve cover gaskets, harmonic balancer,..............lol

 

[aggiegrad05]

I’ve asked this before but I don’t remember the answer and can’t find my question to reference back…

I’m at about 55k miles and the dreaded cam phaser noise has begun, so I’ll need to have mine done soon. BUT….

If I DONT have it fixed, is it a problem that will lead to bigger problems down the road, or is it just an annoying noise issue?

Asked another way: do I HAVE to go through the time and trouble to get it fixed, or can I learn to live with the annoying clatter on startup?

Asked even another way: is something going to break or is this just a noise issue?

 

[Vipersinu2]

Just annoying sound. I read somewhere, if you hold break and gas pedestals down and crank over of a second the engine will build oil pressure. The rattel will not happen when you go to start b/c the oil pressure will be built up.

 

[Tocapet]

Meanwhile my 2009 with 132K miles is still running just fine,nice and quiet.

 

[3rd Expyowner123]

At Ford dealer dropping of my 2018 Expy at 45K miles for likely cam phaser issue. Deadman- Can not believe your engine continues to eat cam phasers. Ford should disassemble that engine and study what the exact failure mode is. Since it is so severe it might be easier to detect for future designs.
It’s interesting that this issue was not surfaced during Ford’s design testing, especially considering these are gen II engines. Somehow engine design testing protocols did not surface this issue. I would first suspect the constant start stop with auto engine shutoff, since this might be a lubrication failure related issue that might happen on engine cranking before oil pressure is fully established.

 

[mcb345]

I had my phasers replaced on my Expedtion and it came back still rattling haha.

I just don’t even care anymore. When I go in next I’ll tell them again to REPLACE the turbos and they’ll probably deny me again but I’ve learned to deal with the 60 seconds of rattle.

I have lifetime powertrain and 125k bumper to bumper so if shit hits the fan it’s on them. I wouldn’t own this car still if I didn’t have those warranties but it drives well, has the features I need and want and overall is a great car it just rattles.

I guess this is the price we pay for a fairly fuel efficient twin turbo V6 instead of a thirsty GM V8…

 

[lbv150]

I want to throw this question out there to all the folks having these internal engine issues....what is the oil change interval, what filters are used and oil type? Is the engine brought up to operating temperature before driven? Is the engine allowed to idle for a few minutes to cool down and let the twin turbos spool down before shutting off the engine? I think I can guess some of the answers...

 

[lv2drive]

i would guess to say that the majority of us on here are aware of proper turbo & engine care, & take significant steps to maintain these for longevity & performance.

as for myself: full synthetic every 5k, oem filter, & always a 2 minute cool down - that is perhaps the most crucial part, to get cooler oil cycled through the turbos prior to shut down & keeps the turbos lasting forever. my 2001 audi allroad 2.7 bi-turbo has 240k all original equipment on it - NEVER been cracked open for ANYTHING & runs like a monster still to this day. true that the cooldown is key for turbo longevity, & that vehicle is living proof. the audi dealer can’t even believe it’s lasted so long tbh.

edit to add: my phasers were just done at 42k, purrs great for now but not planning on it staying that way. there is absolutely something going on with these regarding some reason for low oil pressure at startup / poor parts mfg / design or likely a combination of all.

i wouldn’t go down the road of trying blame ANY of this BS on the owners, nor imply that we are somehow not properly maintaining these vehicles & this is a factor here. sorry, but there is only one party responsible for the mess, & that’s Ford. and only Ford. to suggest otherwise is just plain insulting to those who are dealing with this issue prior to 100k, much less 6 times @ 24k. do you work for them or something?

 

[PhrogPilot]

Mobile1 full synthetic for SUVs, no more than 6K miles - oil life gauge always shows a lot of life remaining. Motorcraft FL-500S filter. We jump in and drive, should be able to do that with a modern day car I would think. Also when we get to the store or for that matter, home, we shut it off rather than sitting for a few minutes. Hope that isn’t the cause of the problems because if it is, that is an unsatisfactory engineering flaw in the engine/vehicle - have never done that with any vehicle I have ever driven since the 1960s and have never experienced any issues before.

 

[cfldad]

I read the manual. No warnings about sitting in a parking lot for several minutes before turning off the truck. If that’s a requirement they should mention it.

 

[lv2drive]

I don’t think it is at all, just a little bonus protection for the turbos. That said none of these problems should be happening regardless of how long do you let the truck run before and after driving.

 

[grumpyoleman]

I read the manual. No warnings about sitting in a parking lot for several minutes before turning off the truck. If that’s a requirement they should mention it.

The short idle before shut down is old school turbo 101, to allow cooling and prevent damage from heat soak. Modern turbos have much better cooling.
Having said that, if I just finished 100 miles towing a significant weight, I would still idle for a bit to allow the turbos to cool before shutting down.

 

[lbv150]

I'm not trying to stir up a poop storm, you may have legit manufacturing issues. I maintain a fleet of vehicles, construction, marine and off road equipment, none of them with any internal engine issues. I am a stickler for warm ups, cool downs, 3K or 100 engine hour oil & filter changes and employees know this. Even my wife and kids know to warm up their cars and trucks at least 10 minutes before leaving home. Call me nuts but my way works for us. I have pulled heads on 200,000 mile engines for broken exhaust bolts with zero cylinder wear and the factory cross hatch still visible.

 

[Fozzy]

Deadman,
Have you recently hauled a GM tech that was killed by a Ford? If so that maybe your problem.


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[Thurston C Munn]

Have a 2017 EL with 60K on it and it's been perfect and when I drive it I keep it hammered !! Just makes no sense all these issues.

 

[Deadman]

Deadman,
Have you recently hauled a GM tech that was killed by a Ford? If so that maybe your problem.


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Those go in my Flex, thats the only thing real reliable that I have!