99 EB 5.4, crank/no start - help!

[dd350]

Hi all,

My '99 EB 5.4 suddenly developed a crank/no start condition after sitting for about two weeks through a lengthy deluge of rain. The last code it reported from the computer was a P0304, misfire detected on #4, but otherwise OK. When I went to go start it again it would crank, sound like it was almost catching about every second, but would not start. I opened up the MAF and tried blasting it with starting fluid, and got a brief cough but otherwise the same results.

Then I gave the battery a full overnight charge and tried it again, but no dice.

I gave it another two gallons of fresh fuel just to be sure, but it has about half a tank and is sitting on a fairly level spot. Still no start.

I noticed the gages are not working when I turn the key to ON - only the Windshield Washer fluid low, Door Ajar and ABS indicators come on. Radio works, EATC works, interior/exterior lights all work. Leave it on for a couple minutes and then things come alive, but it still won't start.

I connected my bluetooth diagnostic to it and turned on the ignition, but it reports that it is unable to connect to the PCM. BIG CLUE, so I start trying to hunt down why the PCM is unresponsive.

1. disconnected the battery for 15-20 seconds and reconnected it. No change.
2. swapped PDB relay 302 and PCM relay 304. No change.
3. tested 5A fuse #2 under dash, both visually and with continuity. Good.
4. tested PDB 15A fuses 23/24, both visually and with continuity. Good.
5. tested PDB 30A fuse 2, both visually and with continuity. Good.
6. tested PDB 15A fuse 18, both visually and with continuity. Good.
7. swapped 501 (PCM) & 502 (A/C clutch) diodes. No change.

I've shot a quick video of what it looks and sounds like when I try to start it and posted it here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IWLBnX-NZVA

I'm all out of ideas why my PCM has seemingly stopped working all of a sudden, other than the possibility of the rain having something to do with it.

If anyone can suggest some next steps I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks,
David D

 

[Bedrck47]

If the Bluetooth device didn't power up check fuse #103 in the Battery Junction Box (under hood) and also fuse #3 in the Central Junction Box (under dash)

Check your ground connections behind the kick panels both sides Make sure they are clean and tight.

Wasn't a good idea to use starter fluid on the MAF sensor. But you may want to try and start the expy while spray some starter fluid into the throttle body to see if it tries to fire up. Don't over spray Just a little

 

[dd350]

The Bluetooth device did power up, just couldn't establish a connection to the PCM. And I just used the MAF sensor as an easy access point to the throttle body.

 

[Bedrck47]

Have you checked for fuel pressure

 

[dd350]

No, for two reasons:

1 - the PCM doesn't run on fuel pressure
2 - the engine didn't run on starting fluid

 

[Bedrck47]

From the 1999 Ford Service Manual

PCM Inputs

Air Conditioning Cycling Switch

Air Conditioning Pressure Sensor

Air Conditioning High Pressure Switch

Brake Pedal Position Switch

Camshaft Position Sensor

Clutch Pedal Position Switch

Crankshaft Position Sensor (Integrated Ignition Systems)

Cylinder Head Temperature Sensor

Differential Pressure Feedback EGR Sensor

Engine Coolant Temperature

Engine Oil Temperature

Fuel Level Input

Fuel Pump Monitor

Applications Using a Fuel Pump Relay for Fuel Pump On/Off Control

Fuel Pump Driver Module Applications

Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor

Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor

Generator Monitor (Gen Mon)

Generator Load

Heated Oxygen Sensor

Intake Air Temperature Sensor

Intake Manifold Runner Control

Knock Sensor

Mass Air Flow Sensor

Power Steering Pressure Switch

Power Steering Pressure Sensor

Power Take-Off Switch and Circuit

Purge Flow Sensor

Throttle Position Sensor

Transmission Control Switch

Solid State Relay

Vehicle Speed Sensor

4x4 Low Touch Drive Button (Switch)

 

[1955moose]

According to my 2000 expy owners book 301 is the fuel pump relay. You might want to pull that one, check for power at terminals of fuse box. Also number 18 fuse on fuse box under hood is listed as fuel pump. My question is all this started by sitting in rain. You did seal the windshield? Right? I know you know first gens leak into gem and inside fuse box. Have you checked to see if your getting spark to plugs. Yours has the separate wires? Or do you have cop. I think 99 is cop. You know how to check? Could have shorted out crank sensor that gives coil power. If you've got a hei spark tester, you can get any tool truck or store. Procedure online how to test for spark on these. Also did you try reset switch passenger kick panel for fuel pump? Keep us posted, it's probably something silly! Usually is. Moose.


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[dd350]

Thanks for your reply, Moose. Let me address your questions individually.

- I have ruled out fuel on this by the starting fluid check, so I'm trying to focus away from that path.
- 99 is COP. I am confident I have an ignition problem rather than a fuel problem, since my PCM is unresponsive.
- I just found out the windshields leak, but I haven't found any evidence of that on mine yet.

I tried to do my best at due diligence before posting this. But I am stumped, and hope the collective wisdom of the team here can give me some new ideas on what to check next.

Thanks,
David D

 

[1955moose]

Dave, on my 2000 expy last year when I had windshield leak all hell broke loose every time it rained. Mine ran, but starter would grind as it's running, like someone was turning key. Other symptoms were no radio, heater blower motor had a mind of its own, power windows wouldn't work, then did. I didn't have the problem your having with a no run condition. You might want see if water got into your gem module or either fuse block. As well as the main computer. If it was me next step I would do is pull one of your cop's with boot/ wire. Check plug going to cop to see if you got power/ground their you can hook up a simple hei type spark plug tester to boot crank it see if you have spark. If not back track, crank sensor, or main computer. Did you get a chance to run codes? If you got a wacky computer, they usually spit out a ton of codes. Keep us posted, we'll figure it out, we always do!


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[Bedrck47]

Thanks for your reply, Moose. Let me address your questions individually.

- I have ruled out fuel on this by the starting fluid check, so I'm trying to focus away from that path.
- 99 is COP. I am confident I have an ignition problem rather than a fuel problem, since my PCM is unresponsive.
- I just found out the windshields leak, but I haven't found any evidence of that on mine yet.

I tried to do my best at due diligence before posting this. But I am stumped, and hope the collective wisdom of the team here can give me some new ideas on what to check next.

Thanks,
David D

A starting fluid check is not a check for fuel pressure
You did state that when you used starting fluid that it appeared to try and fire. That is why I mentioned to check fuel pressure and also gave you a list of the inputs needed for the PCM one of which is fuel pressure.

Don't rule out fuel pressure by your starter fluid test Get a pressure tester and check and that way you will be 100% sure if you have a fuel pressure problem or not. There is a correct way to test and other ways You decide which works best for you

Based on your assumption that fuel pressure isn't a problem I would say you are 0% in knowing what if any fuel pressure you have

 

[Bedrck47]

You state " I opened up the MAF and tried blasting it with starting fluid, and got a brief cough but otherwise the same results."

Since I wasn't there I have no idea if you also sprayed starting fluid on the MAF sensor and if you did it may have been damaged by the fluid.

 

[1955moose]

I agree spraying a fluid like starting fluid on an sensitive item like a maf sensor can't be good. For haha you might try a maf sensor spray on the part. You've got a bit of diagnostic ahead of you.


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[dd350]

Guys, I can't stress this enough. My PCM is not working. No codes, no comm, nothing. Until that is working again, not much else matters.

 

[docraymund]

If you can remove the pcm and open it you can look for signs of moisture inside. Just be careful with static electricity always wear a grounding strap. Also inspect for burned components and signs of bulging of integrated circuits and capacitors. If none are present, you could take it to a computer technician who has a hot air solder he knows what to do.

 

[Bedrck47]

Guys, I can't stress this enough. My PCM is not working. No codes, no comm, nothing. Until that is working again, not much else matters.

Below is the test procedure for a No Start condition and was copied from the 1999 Ford Service manual.

You may possibly be correct that your PCM isn't working and that is your mind-set at this point. Your unwillingness to preform a simple test for fuel pressure because you have ruled out the need for such a test based on your Starting Fluid Test in which you blasted starting fluid at the MAF sensor and inlet doesn't prove what or if you have fuel pressure.

Look at the below and the second test is to make sure the inertia fuel shutoff (IFS) switch is set and then look at test A7. I wonder why Ford would have those test in the procedure.

Again your mindset is a PCM problem and until you are willing to preform tests I am not going to waste my time offering any more help.




A: No Start A: Introduction

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A1 CHECK PASSIVE ANTI-THEFT SYSTEM (SECURILOCK)
Note: This vehicle may have an anti-theft system, which may be activated, causing the no start condition. Verify by viewing anti-theft indicator light on instrument panel or a Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC P1260) may be present.

Verify anti-theft system.
Is the system activated?
Yes No
GO to Electrical Anti-Theft, Section 419-01 in the Workshop Manual for diagnosis and testing. GO to A2 .

A2 ATTEMPT TO CRANK ENGINE
NOTE: Verify inertia fuel shutoff (IFS) switch is set (button pushed in). Refer to Owner Guide for location.

Does engine crank?
Yes No
GO to A3 . REFER to the Starting Systems, Section 303-06 in the Workshop Manual.

A3 IDENTIFY TYPE OF NO START
NOTE: The purpose of this Test Step is to identify intermittent No Starts in order to guide the technician to the proper repair procedure.

Does the vehicle start now?
Yes No
Vehicle is an intermittent No Start. GO to Pinpoint Test Step Z50 and prepare to use the Distributor/Less Ignition System Tester (DIST). Natural gas vehicles:

KEY OFF. GO to Pinpoint Test Step HA47 .

All others:

KEY OFF. GO to A4 .

A4 CHECK VREF VOLTAGE TO THROTTLE POSITION (TP) SENSOR
Disconnect TP sensor.
Key on, engine off.
Measure voltage between VREF and SIG RTN circuit at the TP sensor harness connector. Refer to the schematic in Pinpoint Test DH .
Is voltage between 4.0 and 6.0 volts?
Yes No
KEY OFF. RECONNECT TP sensor. GO to A5 . KEY OFF. GO to Pinpoint Test Step C1 .

A5 CHECK FEPS CIRCUIT FOR SHORT TO POWER IN HARNESS
Key on, engine off.
Measure voltage between Pin 13 at the data link connector and battery negative post.
(Refer to the Electrical and Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual for connector location.)
Is voltage greater than 9.0 volts?
Yes No
REPAIR short to power. For coil-on-plug vehicles:

KEY OFF. GO to A17 .

All others:

KEY OFF. GO to A6 .

A6 CHECK PIP IN THE PCM
Note: The scan tool must be connected to a reliable power source that is powered with the key in the START position (such as directly to the vehicle battery). Also verify that the vehicle battery is fully charged.

Access PIP PID.
While viewing the PIP PID, crank engine.
Is the PIP PID switching on and off?
Yes No
KEY OFF. GO to Pinpoint Test Step JB1 to check ignition coils, plugs and wires. If OK:

Natural gas vehicles:

GO to A15 .

If returning from another pinpoint test or all others:

GO to A7 . KEY OFF. GO to Pinpoint Test Step JD1 .

A7 CHECK FUEL PRESSURE
WARNING: BEFORE SERVICING OR REPLACING ANY COMPONENTS IN THE FUEL SYSTEM, REDUCE THE POSSIBILITY OF INJURY OR FIRE BY FOLLOWING DIRECTIONS IN PINPOINT TEST HC WARNING, CAUTION, AND HANDLING.

Release the fuel pressure.
Install fuel pressure tester.
Scan Tool connected.
Key on, engine off.
Enter Output Test Mode (refer to Section 2 ) and run the fuel pump to obtain maximum fuel pressure.
Is the fuel pressure at the specified pressure (use the fuel pressure chart in Pinpoint Test HC)?
Yes No
GO to A8 . KEY OFF. GO to Pinpoint Test Step HC1 .

 

[dd350]

Bedrck47: I have tried to test the fuel pressure before, and because of Ford's use of a strange type of Schrader valve, my fuel pressure gauge doesn't have an adapter that can work with it. It isn't a matter of unwillingness, I simply cannot test the fuel pressure even if I wanted to.

Sure, I could test the A/C compressor and the rear windshield wiper and the seat recline mechanism and the power antenna all day long, but at some point one has to filter out the things that are unrelated and narrow it all down to just the problem. I've done that and found the problem - my PCM is not responsive. It doesn't matter at this point whether you have fuel pressure if the PCM's dead. What I'm trying to figure out now is why and what to do about it. I can pull another one from the junkyard, but thanks to PATS it wouldn't work anyway.

Thanks for posting the troubleshooting guide, I'll see if there's anything else in there that would be applicable to this situation. Otherwise please keep the ideas coming!

Thanks,
David D

 

[Bedrck47]

As I said and based on your reply that you ruled out fuel pressure due to you starting fluid test ( which isn't a true pressure test) but you failed to even mention that you tried to test pressure in the past as you have just mentioned above And I will say that you weren't able to test the pressure with your equipment. So in reality you have no idea if you have pressure or not. But you have decided to rule it out. That makes perfect sense to me. LOL

I would suggest that you take it to Ford ,Get it towed and tell ford you feel the PCM is bad I am sure they will gladly install a new one without even testing it as you "can't stress this enough. My PCM is not working" But yet you don't show any test results as to why you "can't stress this enough. My PCM is not working" and your not willing to get the proper test equipment to make test to prove or disprove items that the PCM needs for inputs. So as I said earlier I am stepping away from this and will wish you all the best But I do wonder why you came on here asking for free advice and then don't want to listen to that advice.

You remind me of a recent member that I tried to help fix a similar problem. It was hard to get him to check fuses and then he came back and asked if his problem was with the GEM and that was what he thought I tried to get him to get that idea out of his head. until all systems showed they had power. He finally got the expy running and the problem proved to be a short in the wiring He never had to touch the GEM but he always thought that was the problem That was his mind set Just as your mind set is the PCM.. Again you may be correct and it is the problem but the best way to solve any problem is to start at point A and work toward point Z and not skip steps that you don't think are part of the problem As those are the steps that will come back and bite you in the *** . So all the best in your repairs I have already wasted to much time trying to help

 

[Bedrck47]

In your original post you state that you checked 5 fuses both visually and continuity.

Upon looking at the wiring diagrams there are at least 17 fuses associated with the PCM.

Just curious if you also checked those fuse since you made no mention of testing any other fuses other than the ones you listed.

FYI I never test a fuse just by looking at them always test with a meter.

BTW have a Merry Christmas

 

[dd350]

I didn't know there were that many more fuses for the PCM, I'll check through my fuse listing. Thanks for your help, I'm trying to be as methodical as possible and document everything I've done along the way. And yes, I'm testing them all with a meter but also visually in case of corrosion.

 

[stamp11127]

FYI - you stated earlier that the pcm "doesn't run on fuel pressure" true, but what do you think controls the fuel pump?
The main reason we look at fuel pressure first is that fuel pumps fail at a higher rate than pcms do.
The Schrader valve on the fuel rail on my 99 is standard issue.
Corrosion on a fuse? If that is the case you have electrical problems far worse than a no start condition. The only time that would be a possibility is in heavy off road or salty area - marine